Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Tell us about your first lucid dream - and your latest. We want all the juicy details. Also share results of dream challenge experiments.
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Peter
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Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Peter » 17 Apr 2012 06:45

In a dream building and it was a hospital, I walked down a corridor and then for some reason turned into a room. There were two nurses in there a bed some gear and a big video screen. I watched the screen and there was a movie of a person lying in bed and then waking up and realizing that the awakening was into a dream. The realization of what was going on was perfect and the wonder on the face and them uncertainty as figures appeared around the figure was startling.

I started to feel nervous as I felt that the nurses were going to put a needle in me to induce a dream and film my reactions. I backed away and left the room. They did not harm or chase me.

Wake up.

It was a day or so later that I worked out that I was very close to lucid and the person in the video was me and that the DC were in fact trying to assist me in gaining full lucidly. I have had a few of similar dreams lately where I am but lucid and the theme was setting me up but I bailed - will in never learn
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Arcadian
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Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Arcadian » 18 Apr 2012 04:38

Fascinating. I don't understand why the mind cannot recognize this. Why do certain cognitive parts of the brain not work during dreaming? Has Rebecca written an explanation about this? Is there anything out there explaining it or is it still a mystery? It's a shame that we have to truly question our awareness to become lucid even when the subject of the dream concerns lucidity.
False Awakening
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Peter
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Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Peter » 18 Apr 2012 06:26

its insane, I have several very vivid dreams each night and make decisions in them but still am that one dot away from becoming fully lucid. I was riding my bike down a steep pathway with the brake handles not attached to the bars and carefully still managing to be able to use them and I even looked down and noticed that the brake setup was unusual and thought that is was odd and I will remember that for later but didnt take the hint. There were two DC with me on the decent as well. It goes on and on.

It is also difficult be the awareness in the dream state in not where we are used to working and so it feel it hard to create a habit while we are there. In daily life I can do things to jog my memory or even write a note but can find the equal in the dream state to do the same.
In saying all this I feel there is a very obvious and simple answer but it eludes me
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Arcadian
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Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Arcadian » 18 Apr 2012 19:18

Peter wrote: life I can do things to jog my memory or even write a note but can find the equal in the dream state to do the same.
In saying all this I feel there is a very obvious and simple answer but it eludes me


I gave this comment some serious thought because I feel the same way. There must be a solution. How wonderful would it be if we discovered one and it became effective and a new addition the LD techniques?

I thought of one solution to get the ball rolling...

The next time you are lucid, what if you pretend you are not lucid and try to "slip" back into the dream state without being aware. Except make this transition with about 5-10% of your mind remembering to question if you are dreaming. The idea is to reach the "aha! I"m dreaming!" point so that your mind gets used to jogging your memory during the dream state as it does in waking life...

Did I make sense? It would be a slow and difficult process though. Thoughts?
False Awakening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6DArXj2V0

Check out more videos on my Youtube page!

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Peter
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Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Peter » 18 Apr 2012 20:41

its an area that really interests me. We spend far to much time trying to get lucid and its like trying to wake up in the morning, should be natural and easy but there is a blockage that I feel is more conditioning that anything else. As I like to say its possible so lets make it probable and a little easier.

I have 3 lines of thought on where to start and one is from within the dream space and I would break this down into two areas. One ask the DC what to do, really simple but there are communication issues here with their baby talk when they dont want to answer and secondly try to seed some something as you suggest that will trigger the "aha" moment. I really dislike reality checks for the reason that if I am at the stage of doing one I am lucid and already know it.

The other two thoughts are for daily life.
First is to make a habit in some way by association, say I want to remember something like where are my keys. I can put them down on a table or if you are brave under a book in a draw. I can then go past something that I do a lot like the stairs mid way down the hall and each time I go past say to myself "the keys are in the draw in the office under the book" After about 3 passes for me it is in and then each time I go past in the future the thought appears in my mind - it can be annoying and I just cant forget as it is seeded by an action. If there is a way to seed the intent to the dream state from here I dont know but can try.


The 3rd way is one that I feel could produce more success. The dream state appears to be under control of the SC and so the SC needs to be able to be instructed and we need to assume that it will take instruction so we have to show some leadership here as it is a stubborn sort of a thing (directly related to its other half)

There are times during the day when I feel connected, say when I see something in the garden that totally captures my attention, or when I am in tune on my bike riding up a hill and just feel complete. At these times I feel my consciousness and sub-consciousness are in tune for an instant at that time I should simply say aloud and in my mind that (in my next dream I want to be told/made aware.... that I AM DREAMING) make it plain that it is an order.
If you are in tune with you body and mind I feel this may get some results.

What leads me there is that when I am trying for WILD and get to solid HI I will sometimes think in a forceful way (I want to be in the dream state, please put me there) and it will sometimes instantly transit me to a dream.

Keen for your thoughts on this
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Arcadian
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Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Arcadian » 19 Apr 2012 02:26

Interesting ideas. I particularly like the 3rd one. I actually took a nap right after reading your post and I had an LD. I sort of used your 3rd idea.

You can read about my LD here. I posted it in HAGART's dream experiment we are doing.

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1418

As I fell asleep, I was thinking "I am GOING to have an LD. It's been over 2 weeks and I'm fed up with it. I"m about to have an LD." I only literally repeated it about 3 times. Then I just kept the mindset. I became lucid during the HI stage. Turned out to be quite a cool LD if you want to read it.

Anyway, I have done your 3rd idea before. There have been a few "special" moments I've had this past year when I"ve felt happy/completed/satisfied with everything, and when those happened I made the intent of saying I would LD because I felt in touch with my SC. I'm having more LD's than in the past, but I cannot say it is the result of this method. It could just be me growing as an LDer.

As for your 1st solution, I like this idea as well. (I think you only had 2 solutions, not 3. You skipped the 2nd one or included it into #1.) There is the issue, like you said, of incorporating it into the dream state. Also, it seems it would only work when you pass the stairs or when you do whatever it is you do. Which lead me to a dream experiment I wouldn't mind doing...

It will take up a lot of time. I won't be able to attempt it anytime soon. Basically, devote your ENTIRE day to awareness. Constantly question if your dreaming or not and perform reality checks, etc. until you go to sleep that night. I would be interested to know how your dreams that night would be.
False Awakening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6DArXj2V0

Check out more videos on my Youtube page!

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Peter » 19 Apr 2012 05:04

the dream is cool and the seeding is a good way, I have done that a few times and it worked for me, you also put some strong intent into it as well.

My ideas are loose for now and will I hope lead in a valid direction but are not proven at all and they seem to come to me at times of their own accord. One simple insight recently is for reality checks and that we are all asking the wrong question when we look and try to work out if we are dreaming, the correct question is are we sleeping. I think asking this during the day would be a better idea that looking to see if can poke your hand through something. Its sleep that is needed before you can dream so why not ask this simple question so it then becomes are we awake or are we sleeping.

Back to topic. I have thought about a day long immersion but dont feel it is the solution that I want so have not done so, it should work fine and keen to see how you get on.

I also think that SC should be chopped a little and maybe called sub-c and super-c. Sub-c being the interface between waking and sleeping awareness and not involved in the dream content. Thinking this way when we immerse for a day its like using a shotgun to kill a flea and firing it a lot of times because we dont where we are aiming. So a day long immersion will of course hit the Sub-c interface and plant instructions for awareness. In going to sleep and using intent and strong will we are doing the same thing but in a shorter time frame, still trying to hit the mark but a little more focused that's all. The key is to know when the Sub-c is active and able to be imprinted with an instruction.
I want to know how and when this part of us can be used to imprint, I dont think the Sub-c is smart or dumb as that is not the correct concept but it is able to collect or be imprinted with instructions and then we will have the issue of saying "I dont want to LD tonight" as it will be simple as I feel it should be.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Arcadian
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Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Arcadian » 19 Apr 2012 06:43

Peter wrote:One simple insight recently is for reality checks and that we are all asking the wrong question when we look and try to work out if we are dreaming, the correct question is are we sleeping. I think asking this during the day would be a better idea that looking to see if can poke your hand through something. Its sleep that is needed before you can dream so why not ask this simple question so it then becomes are we awake or are we sleeping.


I like where you are going with this. It explains why sometimes our SC (or super-c) can do a reality check in a dream yet it still doesn't trigger a cognitive response to become lucid. So are you saying the key is getting our sub-c to recognize the lucid mindset? Arguing from my last LD, this makes sense. I had a strong intent to have an LD and so my sub-c picked up on the instruction and carried it deeper to the super-c, which made it happen.

Peter wrote:The key is to know when the Sub-c is active and able to be imprinted with an instruction.
I want to know how and when this part of us can be used to imprint, I dont think the Sub-c is smart or dumb as that is not the correct concept but it is able to collect or be imprinted with instructions


I agree. When you say the sub-c is the "interface between waking and sleeping awareness", am I correct in saying that the interface is the boundary line? Here is a diagram to illustrate my interpretation of where everything is.

The Mind

(Asleep)...........................................(Meditation).............................(Awake/Alert)
Subconscious..................................................................................Conscious
(Super-C)............................................Sub-C...................................Cognitive action(reasoning)


Okay..so the idea is to slowly drag the cognitive reasoning during our waking state closer towards the middle so that our sub-c can pick up on it. And once the sub-c picks up on an idea or whatever our instruction is, it can progress it deeper into the Super-C.


So how can we get the sub-c to pick up our instruction? We know that strong intent works, especially during the meditation state. And we know that reality checks are nothing without rationale behind the action.

So I think the best methods for achieving consistent LD is to focus most of our intent as we go to sleep. And that intent needs use logic and reasoning: "Am I sleeping?" I am going to try these methods for now.

I like where the ball is rolling. Even though we already knew much of what is said, it's being carefully examined.
False Awakening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6DArXj2V0

Check out more videos on my Youtube page!

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Peter
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Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Peter » 19 Apr 2012 07:22

yes you have the idea, remember this is just a line of thought and so there is no need to get pedantic with details and also because we are making it up as we go in a lot of ways

The best time is to seed the sub-c and I feel one time it is active is between wake and sleep and possibly during light sleep. Anyway its a good bet to use intent at this time as its only 20 minutes of so between. I also know that if I lie on my back and try to relax ( I dont event use the word meditate as its sets limits in my mind) I will give a jerk and wake if I have slipped into sleep at around 20 minutes or if not I will get some of the body signs of an OOB on or near this time and can then react to this.

It explains why sometimes our SC (or super-c) can do a reality check in a dream yet it still doesn't trigger a cognitive response to become lucid. So are you saying the key is getting our sub-c to recognize the lucid mindset? Arguing from my last LD, this makes sense. I had a strong intent to have an LD and so my sub-c picked up on the instruction and carried it deeper to the super-c, which made it happen.


I think so, I might be rehashing old stuff here but have gotten here on my own by observing my own pathway and of course reading posts etc. The super-c is only doing what it is designed to do just like normal awareness during the day (lets call this Wake-c) we need to break the wall between them and I feel this is something that may be quite ancient and a lost skill but one that can be relearned and used with what we are now discovering.

Like a lot of things its just there looking at us, anyway thanks for running with this and lets see what we can make of it.


The Mind

(Asleep)...........................................(Meditation).............................(Awake/Alert)
Subconscious..................................................................................Conscious
(Super-C)............................................Sub-C...................................Cognitive action(reasoning)


Yes this is a good model to work with and we need to either break down or build up the Sub-c relationship between Sup-c and Wake-c

We know it works, we know when it works, we need to know what calls it up and places it in a receptive state and then seed it.

I have posted another dream and it is one of top 5 and totally mind blowing to me in what I feel I have achieved.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Arcadian
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Joined: 02 Nov 2011 22:30
Location: Mississippi, U.S.

Re: Hit me with a big stick and wake me up

Postby Arcadian » 19 Apr 2012 17:33

Peter wrote:We know it works, we know when it works, we need to know what calls it up and places it in a receptive state and then seed it.

I have posted another dream and it is one of top 5 and totally mind blowing to me in what I feel I have achieved.


I read your dream posted in "baby talks." Sounds like quite a breakthrough for you, congrats! It gives me some ideas on putting the SC in a receptive state and feeding it information. Perhaps EMOTION is one of it's languages since it did not respond to you rationally through words. It makes sense because words are what the other side of the mind uses to communicate during our waking state. So the opposite side of the spectrum, Super-c, would use non-verbal communication. This also explains why we said the SC responded to INTENT as well.

My question is which emotion were you directing toward your DC/SC? Was it a strong command or genuine curiosity?

We know that the best receptive state for the SC is during a dream/LD. The next is during the light sleep/meditation stage. So it's obvious from how I see it: Our best bet of feeding info to our SC is during an LD, specifically by using emotion and intent to communicate. I will experiment with this during my next LDs and report back. If I can get my SC in the habit of thinking about waking/sleeping states during my LDs, then the SC will continue to do it on it's own when I am not lucid, essentially producing more "aha! I'm dreaming!" moments. I think we are getting somewhere.
False Awakening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii6DArXj2V0

Check out more videos on my Youtube page!


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