Philosophical conundrum

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
fineganswaker
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Joined: 08 Jun 2011 18:17

Philosophical conundrum

Postby fineganswaker » 08 Jun 2011 22:07

Let me apologize up front if this smacks a little like a newbie going immediately for the deep end of the pool, but...

I'm sure that some of the more advanced lucid dreamers here have had the experience of someone who's deceased appearing as an interactive dream figure.

Question: Have any of those lucid dreamers ever been able to coax some piece of information from that deceased dream person that the dreamer was then able to verify in the waking world? Some piece of information, of course, that was not known to the dreamer about the actual deceased person.

If so, then more than one quite interesting philosophical conundrum ensues.

Don't get me wrong--I have not personally had such an experience (LD or otherwise), and--quite honestly--I remain skeptical of both the possibility and true verification of such information. Still, for me it's a tantalizing notion, and beyond that I do have a more or less personal reason for asking.

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby Peter » 09 Jun 2011 01:43

I have seen heaps of friends in dreams over the years as I lost quite a few over a peroid of time. They are interesting dreams as some had aged to what I would expect them to be if they were alive and aging in a normal way. Had some odd statements from them, one told me he was happy and where he was you didnt need to sleep so you could play all the time, another was in a wheelchair and proir to his death he was an active bushman and hunter, he said he was free and could walk again.

I dont beleive that all of this and many more events are anything other that the logic of the dreamspace and some wishfull thinking on my part. So nice and heartwarming but a product of the dreamspace.

Still one day I might be proved wrong

Peter
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Ryan Hurd
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby Ryan Hurd » 25 Jun 2011 18:39

it's such a classic question, and a good one. In my visitation dreams, I haven't spend my time trying to wrest facts from the departed -- I'm usually more interested in having a good encounter with them.. it can be quite emotional and healing.

open but skeptical is the necessary attitude. if you're completely cynical, no one will visit!

for the academic study of this phenomenon, I recommend dreamsofthedead.com
Consciousness researcher, author of Sleep Paralysis, and lucid dreaming educator. Find me at DreamStudies.org

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby Peter » 25 Jun 2011 21:33

tend to agree and not look for answers. I will come away with a sense of peace and enjoyment after an encounter.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

rdubya
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Joined: 21 Jun 2011 21:15

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby rdubya » 25 Jun 2011 22:12

fineganswaker wrote:
Don't get me wrong--I have not personally had such an experience (LD or otherwise), and--quite honestly--I remain skeptical of both the possibility and true verification of such information.


Looks like for the first time I find myself on the other side of the table. Like you, with just about all "paranormal" claims I remained skeptical. Oddly, I never thought LD would be considered paranormal, but now I see how people who experience paranormal don't feel it to be paranormal. Anyway, my 2 cents on your question.

I believe what you are asking for is the definitive answer if one can tell if they are receiving any messages from "other dimensions". This I would answer is it depends on where the awareness of the individual is. There are times where it is indeed simply based on our imagination and physical life experiences, but there are times it is clearly not. Just as if you were playing a musical instrument, and you wanted to hit a C key vs a C sharp key. The C key may be our imagination, where as C Sharp key is from another "location". Although to the untrained mind they would sound very similar and probably not even differentiable to some, there is a distinction between the two.

There are lots of studies that show those who have taken these C Sharp messages and relayed them to the physical reality. I do ask you though, even if one of us were to tell you yes, I heard from Grandma and xyz happened, would you believe them? Approach this field with an open mind that any of it is possible, and then simply find out for yourself. Before you know it you will be questioning your own sanity and then saying heck, if I am crazy, then I like crazy!

But I would put my bet on the fact that we are all not crazy or delusional, and the fact is we know very little about the mind and its potentials. The one solid thing i know is that Lucid Dreaming is very real, but I can't show someone else Lucid Dreaming, I can only show them how to do it. That is what makes the other realities so hard to prove they exist. I can physically show you how to throw a ball, but I can't physically show you how to imagine yourself throwing a ball, but I know that both can be done.

fineganswaker
Posts: 98
Joined: 08 Jun 2011 18:17

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby fineganswaker » 04 Aug 2011 20:44

Ryan Hurd wrote:it's such a classic question, and a good one. In my visitation dreams, I haven't spend my time trying to wrest facts from the departed -- I'm usually more interested in having a good encounter with them.. it can be quite emotional and healing.

open but skeptical is the necessary attitude. if you're completely cynical, no one will visit!

for the academic study of this phenomenon, I recommend dreamsofthedead.com


Hey, want to apologize for not keeping up on this thread (especially since I started it!). I've gotten so involved in lucid dreaming techniques over the last few months that I plumb forgot all about it.

Thanks so much for the link--this site looks really interesting!

I'm planning to post more to this thread, but I'm not quite ready. Let me just say that the whole idea behind my posting it--my "personal reason"--isn't to conjure up granny from the great beyond. It's rather just along the lines of a "thought experiment" that has interested the hell out of me for quite a while now: Basically, what would verification even look like after you've been able to "wrest the facts" (well put, by the way)--is verification even possible for something like this?

In a way, I guess this topic falls into the same category as shared or mutual dreaming. Different, but at the same time similar, challenges.

I keep wracking my brains, but I can't come up with anything that doesn't ultimately fall apart when I put it through the old logic grinder. Now that I'm becoming lucid on a more regular basis I do have a couple of ideas though...

Hey, Ryan, just out of curiosity, are you the same Ryan who posts as "rdubya"?

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Peter
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Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby Peter » 04 Aug 2011 23:37

glad you are back and want to keep this one going. Its interesting

Peter
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

fineganswaker
Posts: 98
Joined: 08 Jun 2011 18:17

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby fineganswaker » 05 Aug 2011 00:38

Peter wrote:glad you are back and want to keep this one going. Its interesting
Peter


Yeah, I'm almost thinking I should set up my own blog or something for this--but some place where I can get feedback. I don't want to clog up the forum and get on Rebecca's bad side! :)

Hey, Ryan, if you see this I just want to tell you that your DreamStudies Portal is flippin' fantastic--what a great website!

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Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby Peter » 05 Aug 2011 07:47

Run another thread here and keep the traffic going. Ask if you are not sure. I feel the same sometimes as I seem to have a lot to say and hope that bother anyone but then hope that someone would just say so. keep posting and keep this one alive

Peter
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

rdubya
Posts: 175
Joined: 21 Jun 2011 21:15

Re: Philosophical conundrum

Postby rdubya » 05 Aug 2011 15:05

We are different people, just with the same awesome name =)


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