RC but no Lucidity?!

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby lucidinthe sky » 10 May 2012 22:59

Ryan wrote:See to me that's a straight up lucid dream. You did a reality check and you realized you were dreaming! UNLESS you completely ignored that fact and didn't gain the awareness. Then it's a normal dream again.


This is the problem, you don't actually gain awareness, just dream about it like anything else you dream about. Believe it or not, I have dreams that I dream I gained awareness but didn't.
I wake up and it seems sort of like it was a lucid dream (had one again last night). But there really wasn't awareness, just a dream about the subject of lucid dreaming which had all the elements, but was a dream about it, not the actual thing. If I never had the real thing, I might think that was all there was.

It is a strange thing, don't get me wrong. And you do wake up confused. Although I know from the one I had last night that I am getting close to my next real one.

Ryan wrote:...if it's more collective and less individual/personal, you'll have less "control" because other consciousnesses are stabilizing the reality. I believe that's why this collective consciousness physical reality we're all experiencing right now is so stable and constant.


I'm glad there someone else who believes this besides me. I would call it "collective stability". The entire existence of this "reality" is dependant on most of us believing in it and reinforcing it's existence. If the entire human population collectively decided, we could turn this whole place into an empty void, or anything else we wanted :)
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LucidKey13
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby LucidKey13 » 11 May 2012 05:51

Hmmm I guess that does sound quite possible. But there seems to be 2 different things that you and Rebecca were talking about. I used to always think that 'dreaming about lucid dreaming' was dreaming when lucid dreaming/the concept was based around a whole dream. For example I once dreamed that I was going to school and my first class was a class where I had to teach every one about lucid dreamin (but i did not become lucid or realize that i was dreaming). And I thought this was proved when Rebecca used the example For her topic on beginner mistakes that she once dreamed that she gave a speech on lucid dreaming.

But here it seems to be that actually dream about becoming lucid and controlling the dream.
I'm probably. Along it sound much more complicated than it is, sorry I'm just a bit confused!
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Peter
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Peter » 11 May 2012 13:30

If I am aware I call it a lucid dream and that is when I could do something simple like reacall my name or any detail from waking life. The others are vivid dreams to me and these are so close and very real but I am not aware to the same extent. These dreams are of great value and can be almost as much fun as a LD
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Summerlander
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Summerlander » 11 May 2012 21:46

When it comes to lucidity, it's not always black and white. You can be half-lucid, if you like, and in a sense interpret it that you are only dreaming about the idea of having a lucid dream.

Let me explain this for those who only see black and white...

I once dreamt that I was sleeping at my mum's (in reality I was sleeping at my house) and woke up in the morning in her spare room. I decided to relax and have a WILD by separating from my body. This happened and I separated from my body into a slightly inaccurate replica of my mum's spare room. I floated out of the window to observe Canary Wharf and thought I was completely lucid...

I wasn't...

Why?

Because, despite achieving my out-of-body experience, I still regarded the dream memories of having visited my mum and staying the night as real when in actual fact they had never taken place. I still believed that I had really travelled to her house the night before despite the fact that I was apparently fully lucid.

It wasn't until I was hovering above the city of London that I realised the visit had been a dream and I remembered having gone to bed - at my house - before falling asleep. Suddenly, lucidness appeared to increase. The fact that I remembered more of waking life gave me a profound sense of awareness. Now I was fully lucid. Now, I felt, it was a proper lucid dream. I also realised that it was not a WILD because the wake-initiated induction part had been a dream illusion. What I was experiencing now was an intense DILD.

There. Lucidity is not as simple as people make it out to be... :D
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Ryan
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Ryan » 12 May 2012 02:59

Summerlander wrote:When it comes to lucidity, it's not always black and white. You can be half-lucid, if you like, and in a sense interpret it that you are only dreaming about the idea of having a lucid dream.

Actually... In my opinion, it's *VERY* black and white.
You're either aware of the fact that you're dreaming while you're dreaming... OR
You aren't aware of the fact that you're dreaming while you're dreaming.

I don't really understand how people can add so many extra layers of confusion to it, and is the direct source of my original question. lol

Let me explain this for those who only see black and white...

I once dreamt that I was sleeping at my mum's (in reality I was sleeping at my house) and woke up in the morning in her spare room. I decided to relax and have a WILD by separating from my body. This happened and I separated from my body into a slightly inaccurate replica of my mum's spare room. I floated out of the window to observe Canary Wharf and thought I was completely lucid...

I wasn't...

Why?

Because, despite achieving my out-of-body experience, I still regarded the dream memories of having visited my mum and staying the night as real when in actual fact they had never taken place. I still believed that I had really travelled to her house the night before despite the fact that I was apparently fully lucid.

It wasn't until I was hovering above the city of London that I realised the visit had been a dream and I remembered having gone to bed - at my house - before falling asleep. Suddenly, lucidness appeared to increase. The fact that I remembered more of waking life gave me a profound sense of awareness. Now I was fully lucid. Now, I felt, it was a proper lucid dream. I also realised that it was not a WILD because the wake-initiated induction part had been a dream illusion. What I was experiencing now was an intense DILD.

There. Lucidity is not as simple as people make it out to be... :D

You were aware that you were dreaming (aware that you were in the non-physical at the time of the experience). You were, at the very least, lucid dreaming (and at best a full astral experience).

See? Very black and white. :)

Again, this is why I'm so confused by the statements some people make about these experiences. It's almost like some people are attempting to go out of their way to talk themselves out of the fact that they're successfully projecting. I don't get it.
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby lucidinthe sky » 13 May 2012 04:08

Ryan wrote:You were aware that you were dreaming (aware that you were in the non-physical at the time of the experience). You were, at the very least, lucid dreaming (and at best a full astral experience).


Just to simplify things: When you dream about being aware it's a regular dream. You wake up with the memories of a dream only and all the memories are at the same level of significance, no memory stands out from the others. The awareness part has the same level of significance as the rest of the dream.

When you are awake while you were dreaming, then it's lucid dream and your awareness is really separate from the dream. You wake up and the memories from the lucid experience are completely different from the dream itself. The difference between the two is very obvious. Memories of being lucid are the same as memories of waking life, they are not like dream memories.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Ryan
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Ryan » 13 May 2012 21:29

So you're referring to dreaming and the subject of the dream is lucid dreaming... or you talking about awareness. So the dream is about awareness. Not you actually having awareness.

That I can understand, but the way people are describing this... it's my understanding this isn't what's being described here. I could be wrong though. :)
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lucidinthe sky
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby lucidinthe sky » 14 May 2012 05:33

Ryan wrote:So you're referring to dreaming and the subject of the dream is lucid dreaming... or you talking about awareness. So the dream is about awareness. Not you actually having awareness.


Yes, that's it. You are having a dream about the subject which probably comes from the desire to have it happen. And of course you can have a dream about any subject. But when you wake up it's a little confusing because the dream may have had elements of a real lucid dream such as reality checks, dream characters that you told you were dreaming, the memory of being aware in the dream, etc. And you think: Was that a lucid dream? You might think it was, but it's not. If it only had dream memories, that's the easiest way to tell. Memories of actually being lucid are like waking life memories and really stand out from dream memories. The idea of having a lucid dream and being aware stands out in the sense that it may be more important, but if the memory is at the same level as everything and fades away at the same rate it's not a real LD. A real lucid awareness memory doesn't fade away because it's something that actually happened to you vs. something you dreamed about. Hope that makes sense.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Summerlander
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Summerlander » 14 May 2012 09:41

Ryan... it's not black and white, my friend. You can dream of having a lucid dream but your mental faculties are not as operational as they would be if you were fully lucid and with real memories (not false dream ones - if you read the example I provided you would understand).

There are many levels of lucidity and dreaming itself can vary in quality too. The human brain is not as simple as you portray it to be. To have full lucidity, is to feel awake in the present moment and to know you are dreaming. Take a gander at some of the info regarding levels of lucidity that Rebecca provides in this site and you will understand.

You also said:
I don't really understand how people can add so many extra layers of confusion to it, and is the direct source of my original question. lol


and then you say:
You were aware that you were dreaming (aware that you were in the non-physical at the time of the experience). You were, at the very least, lucid dreaming (and at best a full astral experience).


Talk about adding extra layers in brackets, pal. "Non-physical"? "Astral"? :roll:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Ryan
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Ryan » 15 May 2012 03:22

I'm not talking about "full lucidity". I'm talking about a simple notion that you know you're dreaming.

There comes a point when, at some very minimal level of awareness that you realize you're dreaming. BAM... regardless of the circumstances, you're now lucid dreaming. This is what I refer to as having a lucid awareness.

Sorry bud, but as I see it... it's about as black and white as it gets. Nor does it get any simpler than that. LoL

I've got my responses, as I said, thank you to everyone who provided a perspective. It's much appreciated.
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