RC but no Lucidity?!

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Peter
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Peter » 15 May 2012 05:31

I admit that I get confused as well, I am aware to some degree when dreaming in ranges from knowing I am dreaming but not getting the "aha" moment but being able to recall name and events from daily life to full control. This is driven by either simply being lucid and enjoying more awareness that in a vivid dream to having a goal and wanting to acheive it while being lucid. I cant recall dreaming about being lucid and and failing to grasp this concept.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Summerlander » 15 May 2012 10:44

Ryan wrote:I'm not talking about "full lucidity". I'm talking about a simple notion that you know you're dreaming.

There comes a point when, at some very minimal level of awareness that you realize you're dreaming. BAM... regardless of the circumstances, you're now lucid dreaming. This is what I refer to as having a lucid awareness.

Sorry bud, but as I see it... it's about as black and white as it gets. Nor does it get any simpler than that. LoL

I've got my responses, as I said, thank you to everyone who provided a perspective. It's much appreciated.


We get what you are saying as you keep repeating yourself. There is no need to state the obvious there Ryan because nobody here is retarded or incapable of understanding English. It has been established long ago that lucid dreaming is when an individual knows that he is dreaming. Nobody said otherwise.

But people are free to decide whether or not they had a fulfilling experience. Surely you must have had instances where you apparently became lucid but continued with the plot of a dream as though it was really happening and then only to wake up and realise that it felt like a dream? There are instances where lucidity was vague, diminished and the overall experience felt more like ordinary dreaming than anything else.

I believe that people are entitled to not be satisfied with the quality of there experiences and strive for better. A fully-lucid experience - where you feel like you are there, awake, and you wake up with a good memory of it and of having been somewhere else - is more fulfilling and more worthy of the "lucid dream" tag.

What has been explained to you, which is also in the example I provided, demonstrates shades of grey, buddy. Sorry.

If you are lucid, why would you believe that something that happened in a non-lucid period of dreaming really happened? That shows that part of you isn't lucid. A non-lucid part. In some cases, individuals might feel that they were more non-lucid than lucid. An individual might decide upon awakening that he was 80% non-lucid, when he introspectively considers all the elements at play, and only 20% lucid. Round that off and it is logical or acceptable that one might conclude that the overall experience was mostly ordinary dreaming.

You argue that it is "black and white" because you are simply arguing the semantics side when we all know full well that such experiences go beyond language. The mind can be paradoxical. I've had instances of meditation and visualisation where I was looking at familiar objects in my mind and go from knowing what I was looking at to not knowing and then back to knowing like I was playing with a switch. A switch that I could also control! Fascinating. Nothing black and white when it comes to matters of the mind.

As for the "astral" term that you used, it is unnecessary here as it is a belief-centric notion and slightly off-topic. Why not stop at lucid dreaming. Why add the confusing and hypothetical view that not everyone adheres to?
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Peter » 16 May 2012 01:41

is this dreaming about being lucid the gaps between being lucid or the jumping in and out that happens at times?, like most people I get this, know that I was lucid for an instant of for a short time but never called this dreaming about being lucid as I was but not for long.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Summerlander
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Summerlander » 16 May 2012 20:11

And it is your prerogative to call the experience a "lucid dream" however vague lucidity might have been, Peter. But, unlike Xanth, I can understand those who describe it as "dreaming about the idea of being lucid". When lucidity is vague and you still hold some dream memories as actual events, you are in a self-deluded state as it were. There are certain mental faculties missing even in that moment of lucidity that, as you rightly mentioned, lasted for a short time.

Full lucidity, however, does not compare to it. When you are fully lucid, you can distinguish what is real and what isn't in your memory. Another thing I'll point out which is typical of when a dreamer is running away from something or someone and then becomes lucid... the first few moments of lucidity are not enough to make you stop running straight away. You may still feel scared. Despite the fact that the switch over to lucidity felt sudden, you may not quite be there. The mental faculties that make up the logical/analytical mind soon follow though.

I'm not denying that you are not really lucid, there is indeed a tad of lucidity (that can quickly vanish if not cultivated). But I see where people are coming from when they are dissatisfied. Upon awakening, the overall memory of the experience is often vague and feels very dreamlike rather than lucid-dreamlike.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Peter » 17 May 2012 01:45

I get a little weary of micro managing ideas but fully understand the differences. I dont confuse lucid with non lucid and like you have most likely had the full range from OOB to lucid to lucid instants and very long fully lucid dreams. I only record lucid dreams as being those of a decent length and with full control and I will normally have recalled a bit of daily life at the start so there is no confusion and so I dont water down what I call a lucid dream. I agree that running away etc gets close but its not there and that has not happened for a lot of years as most are WILD or spontaneous these days.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Ryan
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Ryan » 17 May 2012 02:10

Summerlander wrote:We get what you are saying as you keep repeating yourself. There is no need to state the obvious there Ryan because nobody here is retarded or incapable of understanding English.

Nobody is calling anyone else here "retarded" or "incapable of understanding English", Summerlander. I'd appreciate it if you kept your assumptions to a minimum please. Thanks.

I'm clarifying my opinion. If you can't handle that, I'd suggest not reading my responses please... again, thanks. ;)

Peter wrote:I get a little weary of micro managing ideas but fully understand the differences. I dont confuse lucid with non lucid and like you have most likely had the full range from OOB to lucid to lucid instants and very long fully lucid dreams. I only record lucid dreams as being those of a decent length and with full control and I will normally have recalled a bit of daily life at the start so there is no confusion and so I dont water down what I call a lucid dream. I agree that running away etc gets close but its not there and that has not happened for a lot of years as most are WILD or spontaneous these days.

I know what ya mean. Micro managing ideas isn't helpful to the individual or greater community.

It's clear here that most people have their own definitions of "lucid" and "non-lucid", which is great, we need differing perspectives in order to build a whole. Putting all our eggs in a single basket, for example, is never a good idea. :)

As I said before, I've got a much better idea of what you guys are referring to in regards to my original query. Thanks everyone! :)
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Summerlander
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Summerlander » 17 May 2012 14:07

Nobody is calling anyone else here "retarded" or "incapable of understanding English", Summerlander. I'd appreciate it if you kept your assumptions to a minimum please. Thanks.

I'm clarifying my opinion. If you can't handle that, I'd suggest not reading my responses please... again, thanks.


But you haven't clarified anything other than state the obvious and repeating yourself, Ryan. To me that seems very condescending to people who interpret the overall experience as "non-lucid".

I could say the same thing to you: to keep your assumptions to a minimum when you say that I can't handle what you say. :roll:

I can't stand persistent ignorance, that's for sure. And like you, I can wink too, although I don't really understand why you are being a winker. I think it must be something deep-seated within your psyche. ;)

I agree that running away etc gets close but its not there and that has not happened for a lot of years as most are WILD or spontaneous these days.


Yes, Peter. The running away from danger whilst lucid is definitely more likely to happen in DILDs. It's curious though, is it not, that despite being lucid (knowing it's all a dream), we still perceive whatever is chasing us as danger and continue running for a while. :D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Peter » 17 May 2012 20:58

I thinks it the fight or flight mind and we just run. Some of us in real life run far and fast and some take 2 steps forward and then turn round and face up so it most likely reflects out true nature in those instants. :)
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Ryan
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Ryan » 17 May 2012 23:43

Peter wrote:I thinks it the fight or flight mind and we just run. Some of us in real life run far and fast and some take 2 steps forward and then turn round and face up so it most likely reflects out true nature in those instants. :)

I believe that a lot of our reactions even while lucidly aware (not astrally aware), are "being" level reactions, instead of an "intellectual" level. Meaning that at our deepest core, after you've stripped away the ego and intellect from the decision, that's the action you would ultimately take.
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Peter
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Re: RC but no Lucidity?!

Postby Peter » 18 May 2012 04:58

I believe that a lot of our reactions even while lucidly aware (not astrally aware),


so after lots of debate about dreaming of being in a lucid dream you state this....Can you explain this one :lol:
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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