What are your religious views?

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What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

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Kranter
Posts: 16
Joined: 19 May 2012 20:06

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Kranter » 27 May 2012 04:22

Personaly, I do believe in a higher power. This world is too complex for it to be a random occurance. Saying it's random is like saying the dictionary was first created by an explosion in a printing press. Plus look at the evidence He's shown us. Our Lady of Fatima (miracle of the sun) or Padre Pio (the stigmatist). Those 2 situations are unable to be explained by science. How do you explain holes appearing in the hands and feet out of nowhere, and still not healing (or host an infection), and constantly bleed, even after 50 years? You can't. Simple as that.

Hope I didn't anger anyone. My apologies if I did. Just my 2 cents. ;)
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

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Summerlander
Posts: 3639
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 30 May 2012 19:52

This world is too complex for it to be a random occurance.


Nah. This won't cut it. You need something more substantial than this. Did you know that the world has changed a lot over thousands and thousands of years? A chaotic universe would have had enough time to stumble upon this complexity and apparent "order" from our beloved anthropological view. I'm not even going to mention the fact that a cloud of gas (simpler form) formed the solar system. I won't even go into detail about the fact that the sun converts 600 million tonnes of hydrogen (simple atomic structure) into helium (slightly more complex) every second. While this prevents our star from collapsing in on itself, it is also slowly effecting its demise. You want to talk about which of the effects has more meaning to you?

Saying it's random is like saying the dictionary was first created by an explosion in a printing press.


No, it isn't. It could still have stumbled upon what we see today. You forget that we used to be ape-like creatures that hardly thought about things and pretty much followed instinctive behaviour when stimulated by the environment. Overtime, our consciousness-lacking "lizard brains" evolved more complex layers and... voila! Now we have a thinking brain and self-awareness (most of the time). The computational power of the modern brain is such that it is capable of analysing itself and asking questions about reality in a profound way. Thus, your analogy is moot. We evolved language in order to communicate and aid our survival. Recently, it has even been proposed that our brains have evolved to argue and persuade people and not even to be rational. In this view, our biological systems have evolved to survive as best as it can with what it has and continues to adapt to the changing environment.

However you want to interpret this, it is still an environment stimulating an organism - particles interacting with particles - vibrating matter in motion - cause and effect - all energy. It only has meaning if we say so. Hence why, the dictionary, however you view it, ties in with the randomness of cause and effect (like boiling water bubbling up in a crescendo as the temperature rises).

If an alien being saw a dictionary for the first time, it might as well been "created by an explosion in a printing press". The text becomes meaningless if you change the context.

Our Lady of Fatima (miracle of the sun) or Padre Pio (the stigmatist). Those 2 situations are unable to be explained by science. How do you explain holes appearing in the hands and feet out of nowhere, and still not healing (or host an infection), and constantly bleed, even after 50 years? You can't. Simple as that.


Have you ever seen a miracle happen? This expresses your naivete about the world and its shady characters. There is no concrete evidence whatsoever that any miracles ever took place apart from mass delusion and confirmation bias amongst people. Their have been more convincing illusions demonstrated by the likes of James Randi and Derren Brown than so-called miracles from hearsay.

I don't know about science wasting its time in defrauding certain acts, but, so far, it has helped us enormously with the amazing technology it has spawned. You have a computer in front of you that enables you to express your views because of science and certainly not because of a god and his miracles. Furthermore, I know a 4-year-old boy who is in a critical condition with Neuroblastoma (a form of cancer). Meanwhile, in the paper, a convicted paedophile is released from jail and wins the lottery. Your god, if he exists, has a very weird sense of humour...

To further illustrate my point, I find myself precisely agreeing with Sam Harris:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcO4TnrskE0
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 30 May 2012 20:37

it has even been proposed that our brains have evolved to argue and persuade people and not even to be rational


I know people like this....it could be a horrible truth and the beginning of the end, we will get a very emotional race that reacts rather that thinks and acts.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Ryan
Posts: 548
Joined: 07 Aug 2011 19:47
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ryan » 31 May 2012 00:24

Peter wrote:I know people like this....it could be a horrible truth and the beginning of the end, we will get a very emotional race that reacts rather that thinks and acts.

hehe I've met several people just like that as well. Mostly on forums such as these though. Strange. :)
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Kranter
Posts: 16
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Kranter » 31 May 2012 02:51

@Summerlander: I'm not here to fight over who's right/wrong. I'm just stating my 2 cents. Although I do respect your opinion, & thank you for replying. We are both (or at least I am) set in our ways. Trying to disprove one another will get us nowhere, don't you agree? :D
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

LucidKey13
Posts: 53
Joined: 24 Mar 2012 23:07
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby LucidKey13 » 31 May 2012 06:46

Summerlander wrote: You have a computer in front of you that enables you to express your views because of science and certainly not because of a god and his miracles. Furthermore, I know a 4-year-old boy who is in a critical condition with Neuroblastoma (a form of cancer). Meanwhile, in the paper, a convicted paedophile is released from jail and wins the lottery. Your god, if he exists, has a very weird sense of humour...


God did not make technology. Man made technology and god made man.

Trying to suggest that God was responsible for those incidents is completely the wrong way to look at it. My 12 year old cousin died from cancer and I do not blame it on god. In our world diseases and rouge cells are part of life, could you imagine a world where everyone is constantly free of burden and illness, people live forever and no challenges ever surface throughout their whole life?
God gave us freewill so we can make our own choices and live freely. He did not foresee a world where such horrible people with such twisted, sad minds would exist. We must remember that once we were all small innocent babies, criminals did not begin as criminals - circumstances in their life changed them, affected them. And obviuosly God would not interfare with the luck of the lottery. That's just some of my personal philosophy, anyway. :)

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Summerlander
Posts: 3639
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 31 May 2012 15:06

Kranter wrote:@Summerlander: I'm not here to fight over who's right/wrong. I'm just stating my 2 cents. Although I do respect your opinion, & thank you for replying. We are both (or at least I am) set in our ways. Trying to disprove one another will get us nowhere, don't you agree? :D


Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to disprove you. I'm just trying to think a little bit more about other possibilities within the fact that people can be deceitful.

LucidKey13 wrote:
Summerlander wrote: You have a computer in front of you that enables you to express your views because of science and certainly not because of a god and his miracles. Furthermore, I know a 4-year-old boy who is in a critical condition with Neuroblastoma (a form of cancer). Meanwhile, in the paper, a convicted paedophile is released from jail and wins the lottery. Your god, if he exists, has a very weird sense of humour...


God did not make technology. Man made technology and god made man.

Trying to suggest that God was responsible for those incidents is completely the wrong way to look at it. My 12 year old cousin died from cancer and I do not blame it on god. In our world diseases and rouge cells are part of life, could you imagine a world where everyone is constantly free of burden and illness, people live forever and no challenges ever surface throughout their whole life?
God gave us freewill so we can make our own choices and live freely. He did not foresee a world where such horrible people with such twisted, sad minds would exist. We must remember that once we were all small innocent babies, criminals did not begin as criminals - circumstances in their life changed them, affected them. And obviuosly God would not interfare with the luck of the lottery. That's just some of my personal philosophy, anyway. :)

[ Post made via iPod ] Image


Actually, I'm not blaming God. I'm saying he is not there at all. Hypothetically speaking, if there was a God, and if is as infinite and omnipotent as they say, then that pretty much makes him responsible for whatever happens, don't you think? It also would enable him to prevent innocent children from suffering. As Sam Harris put it: either he is impotent or evil. - I'll add something extra: ...or he doesn't exist (nothing but an anthropological fabrication, like Santa Claus, only harder to outgrow).

The world is the way it is because it is random or predetermined by the cause and effect that began with the Big Bang. No God pulling the strings. On free will, there is no free will either. It is an illusion. You may think that you are making decisions but there is much evidence that shows your will is anything but free. check this link where it has been discussed extensively and you will understand why:

http://forum.obe4u.com/index.php?topic=1061.0

He did not foresee a world where such horrible people with such twisted, sad minds would exist.


According to the philosophy, he created such horrible people. According to the philosophy, he is omnipotent - saying he could not foresee something is very contradictory, don't you think?
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 31 May 2012 22:35

Another book on the way - cheers
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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Kranter
Posts: 16
Joined: 19 May 2012 20:06

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Kranter » 01 Jun 2012 01:58

Forgive me, for I can't qoute on the device I'm using type this (my PS3 internet browser). @ both of you: I propose this question: Can an ant solve an algebra problem? No. Its brain does not contain the capacity to do such a thing. Humans are no different. Of course we can solve an algebra problem, but we cannot understand God. God does what he does for a reason. Trying to understand is just like an algebraic ant. It is impossible. Why? Because we are not God, nor will we ever be. So to blame God for something like that is just folly. I can understand why you would, but He has His reasons. ;)
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

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Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 01 Jun 2012 02:21

If you want to put that in perspective the there at two sides to an ant brain and neither one is valid to make a judgement only hold beliefs and as I have said I dont not believe or not believe but have no need for religion in my life
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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