What are your religious views?

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What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

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Jack Reacher
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Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Jack Reacher » 01 Jun 2012 07:09

imo if there is a god, he aint doing shit
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

LucidKey13
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Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby LucidKey13 » 01 Jun 2012 11:55

Summerlander wrote: Actually, I'm not blaming God. I'm saying he is not there at all. Hypothetically speaking, if there was a God, and if is as infinite and omnipotent as they say, then that pretty much makes him responsible for whatever happens, don't you think? It also would enable him to prevent innocent children from suffering. As Sam Harris put it: either he is impotent or evil. - I'll add something extra: ...or he doesn't exist (nothing but an anthropological fabrication, like Santa Claus, only harder to outgrow).

The world is the way it is because it is random or predetermined by the cause and effect that began with the Big Bang. No God pulling the strings. On free will, there is no free will either. It is an illusion. You may think that you are making decisions but there is much evidence that shows your will is anything but free. check this link where it has been discussed extensively and you will understand why:

http://forum.obe4u.com/index.php?topic=1061.0

He did not foresee a world where such horrible people with such twisted, sad minds would exist.


According to the philosophy, he created such horrible people. According to the philosophy, he is omnipotent - saying he could not foresee something is very contradictory, don't you think?


I see where you are coming from, I can see where everyone is coming from - especially with the proof and advancement of science. Instead of getting into a huge disscussion about religion etc. I would just like to leave it at the simple fact that we all have our different beliefs/non beliefs! ;)
"Umbrella can’t stop the rain, But Make Us to stand in Rain.
Confidence May not bring success, But It gives a POWER to face any Challenge."

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 01 Jun 2012 15:08

Kranter wrote:Forgive me, for I can't qoute on the device I'm using type this (my PS3 internet browser). @ both of you: I propose this question: Can an ant solve an algebra problem? No. Its brain does not contain the capacity to do such a thing. Humans are no different. Of course we can solve an algebra problem, but we cannot understand God. God does what he does for a reason. Trying to understand is just like an algebraic ant. It is impossible. Why? Because we are not God, nor will we ever be. So to blame God for something like that is just folly. I can understand why you would, but He has His reasons. ;)


But isn't this just making excuses for Him and to perpetuate His supposed existence? I'll tell you where the folly appears to be: If the president of the United States orders someone's execution, even if it is a matter of national security, he is bad and might be labelled a murderer. If he goes to war, he's genocidal. Yet, if God orders the killing of people through messengers like Moses, it can only be good and right because it comes from him. Your post illustrates the point I was trying to make very clearly.

If we can't justify his actions logically, then it is because He is God and He works in mysterious ways. and we are supposed to just accept his existence without a shred of evidence. Come on...

People don't need to believe in a God to be good and kind to each other.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Kranter
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Kranter » 02 Jun 2012 07:12

You say without a shred of evidence? Mircles are evidence. Feeling his presence is evidence. Seeing Him work in people's lives is evidence. You can easily discard all of this as not being evidence, but to me, it is. That is my evidence. Laugh at me if you want. It won't change a damn thing. I know there is a god. How? I just do. I have nothing to prove. Live your life the way you wish, as I will mine. ;)
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 02 Jun 2012 16:06

I understand what you are saying and I wouldn't laugh at you for your beliefs. But I am just trying to understand how can someone so readily accept something that was exposed to them as an unquestionable truth when the so-called evidence is not solid enough and is so scientifically dismissed.

For instance, John Nash felt the presence of certain characters around him with all his senses. To him they were real. To everyone else, they were Nash's delusions and he was in fact diagnosed as a schizophrenic.

One day, during a hallucination superimposed on reality, Nash had a moment of lucidity when he realised that one of his characters had not aged. From then on he made progress and he was able to stay more focused on reality.

You see how even feeling God's presence is not enough? How can you be so dismissive of the possibility that what is going on here is mass delusion? I'm just posing these questions because I'd really like to understand where you are coming from.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 02 Jun 2012 22:13

One day, during a hallucination superimposed on reality, Nash had a moment of lucidity when he realised that one of his characters had not aged. From then on he made progress and he was able to stay more focused on reality.


Thats interesting, could we assist recovery but teaching them all how to LD? and then imagine the places they could go and what could be learnt. Could be that one of our most valuable resources for exploring consciousness is being dumbed down by drugs and locked up.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Ty8200
Posts: 105
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 08:26

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ty8200 » 04 Jun 2012 09:23

Here is my belief: I believe in everything, and nothing. I do and do not believe in God. No one can or can't say he exists. Perhaps he does not have human conscience perception. Perhaps he does not have an ego or a personality. So he will not stop a pedophile from winning the lottery, or cure a child's cancer, perhaps he doesn't think like humans do. Perhaps he didn't exist, and human consciousness spawned him into existence.

As for the people who depend strongly on science, let me tell you, science is a religion. The so-called facts you are told have the same place in possible existence as God does. What's an atom? Do atoms truly exist, or are they simply made up by scientists because everything needs an explanation? I think the main reason people believe in science so strongly is because it's so accepted, and if you're a "logical" thinker, you're perceived as a person of "intellect", "rational", and having a strong grip on reality. But the truth is, no one can say if we continue to exist after death. No one has died and come back to tell the tale. Perhaps the brain doesn't really contribute to consciousness at all. As we experience consciousness, perhaps the brain simply reacts. Perhaps the brain doesn't react at all, we simply perceive is so. Anything is possible to someone of a reasonably open mind. I think if you simply accept what science tells you is fact, it's no different than following a religion. What is accepted in the mainstream is science, it's not called a religion because it uses technology, human created technology. Only to understand what humans can, and nothing more. What they see through a microscope could be disfigured, dismembered or not even the same thing as what it really is.

As most other people on here, I'm not trying to force my personal beliefs on others, it's just something to think about. I just don't like it when I see people on their high-horses, acting as if they know the truth, when they actually only know what science tells them. The one and only truth is that we can't truly know anything.
Reality is the sight, where reflection is the truth.
Water is the glass, where deception is the stone.
Reality is the cage, where limit is the lock.
Mind is the key, where only the blind can see.

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Summerlander
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Summerlander » 04 Jun 2012 23:40

Perhaps...
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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jamiealexander
Posts: 49
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Location: Edinburgh

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby jamiealexander » 05 Jun 2012 16:25

I think there's something going on with consciousness. That's because I'm afraid of death and nothingness :D .

I think religions are interesting. Not too keen on the troubles. Especially when grown men can't watch football together without stabbing each other.

I'm not religious. I don't believe in god. I'll apologize at the gates if I'm wrong lol.

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Rebecca
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Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Rebecca » 07 Jun 2012 05:42

Ty8200 wrote:Here is my belief: I believe in everything, and nothing. I do and do not believe in God. No one can or can't say he exists. Perhaps he does not have human conscience perception. Perhaps he does not have an ego or a personality. So he will not stop a pedophile from winning the lottery, or cure a child's cancer, perhaps he doesn't think like humans do. Perhaps he didn't exist, and human consciousness spawned him into existence.

As for the people who depend strongly on science, let me tell you, science is a religion. The so-called facts you are told have the same place in possible existence as God does. What's an atom? Do atoms truly exist, or are they simply made up by scientists because everything needs an explanation? I think the main reason people believe in science so strongly is because it's so accepted, and if you're a "logical" thinker, you're perceived as a person of "intellect", "rational", and having a strong grip on reality. But the truth is, no one can say if we continue to exist after death. No one has died and come back to tell the tale. Perhaps the brain doesn't really contribute to consciousness at all. As we experience consciousness, perhaps the brain simply reacts. Perhaps the brain doesn't react at all, we simply perceive is so. Anything is possible to someone of a reasonably open mind. I think if you simply accept what science tells you is fact, it's no different than following a religion. What is accepted in the mainstream is science, it's not called a religion because it uses technology, human created technology. Only to understand what humans can, and nothing more. What they see through a microscope could be disfigured, dismembered or not even the same thing as what it really is.

As most other people on here, I'm not trying to force my personal beliefs on others, it's just something to think about. I just don't like it when I see people on their high-horses, acting as if they know the truth, when they actually only know what science tells them. The one and only truth is that we can't truly know anything.


I think I see what you're getting at - that ultimately there is no "truth" because everything is a human interpretation. And there could be something inherent about human perception that prevents us from seeing the big picture.

I have trouble referring to science as a religion though. There is an importance difference to acknowledge, and it makes them very different models of understanding reality. For example...

The rules and principles of religion are dictated by the founders or those who inherit the positions of religious power, and the followers have to lump the consequences; there is no compromise, you just follow and obey. It's a dictatorship. It forces you to be closed-minded.

Science meanwhile is a culmination of opinions and theories based on the most accurate observations we have to date. It is constantly open for revision, based on better evidence and better technologies through which we can observe reality. Anyone can contribute new scientific models and change the way we see the world. It's more like a democracy. It is open-minded for this very reason, and anyone who says science is closed-minded needs to go back and check the definition of "Science"! It is the open-minded, open-to-revision development of knowledge based on observed fact.

Both models can be flawed, of course...

Much of the foundations of say, Christian faith, can be flawed based on current information we have. To cling the concept of Creationism in one hand, while holding copious evidence for Evolution in the other, makes no sense to me. This is a MAJOR flaw of religion, which it does time and time again in the light of 21st century technology. (I say technology in the place of science because many religious people now see "science" as a bad thing, as the enemy, even though it powers the internet you're using right now. If science is so "wrong", how does it visibly PROVE itself every day in your own life with so much "right"?)

Can science be flawed? Yes, but in retrospect. Plenty of scientific theories have been chucked down the toilet when newer, better scientific theories came in to replace them with more accurate models. The important thing to note here is progression. Scientists do not cling onto debunked beliefs when there are more fitting answers available. When we discovered that epileptic fits were caused by disturbed brain function, we sought to treat it neurologically. Scientists didn't continue to drill holes in the skull or conduct exorcisms to expel the demons. Science insists: we MUST progress!

Anyway that's why I really can't lump the two into the same bucket.... ;)

Existentially, perhaps everything we know is wrong. But for practical purposes of surviving as a species, we all have to decide which is the best path for human progression. I don't believe the best way to decide is to go on a gut feeling or a desire to survive life after death, but to examine how religious indoctrination shapes our world today (for better and for worse, let's not pick and choose), who controls these institutions (and to what end, getting behind the propaganda), and take a frank look at what our world will be like in 100 years if we became a strictly science-driven or strictly faith-driven species.

Now some words on this subject from someone who is infinitely more intelligent than me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQorzOS-F6w


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