Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

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Ryan
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Re: Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

Postby Ryan » 13 Jun 2012 02:27

Summerlander wrote:"Quantum mechanics is weird, but not weird enough to allow a grain of sand to hop unaided out of a matchbox."

- Brian Cox

If you were to place a matchbox full of sand on a sandy beach... and not count the number of grains of sand in it. Then the possibility would be there for this to occur. :D
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Summerlander
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Re: Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

Postby Summerlander » 13 Jun 2012 21:47

Have you overlooked the word unaided in the quote?

What does the number of grains have to do with anything? :?

And on a sandy beach, there is a chance that there will be "aids" to make the hopping out of the box possible. The wind could pry open the matchbox. A smoker could pick it up in search of matches and empty it out in frustration. A crab could come...

The beach context teems with possibilities that make the hopping practically possible. However, lock away the matchbox in an empty vault and chances are that there will be no hopping.

If we think of quantum particles and acknowledge that they behave somewhat like a particle and somewhat like a wave in a probabilistic frame, we will find that within the inner and outer cluster of peaks and troughs, the waves cancel each other out in certain points. This will quickly take place as we make the measurement, because, things on a smaller scale secretly play out all scenarios before settling on the most likely outcome. Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle hinges on this.

We must also remember that, on a quantum level, it is apparent that nothing is at rest, even those particles which are not effected upon by force - this is where Newton's laws (which although logical and very applicable on a macro scale) are thrown out of the window. The more precisely you know the position of a particle at some instant, the less well you know how fast it is moving and therefore where it will be sometime later.

Now, we live in a quantum universe, and, a grain of sand is a relatively ginormous object in the quantum realm. It is so huge that it no longer appears to obey quantum laws and conforms to classical physics. However, it is made up of those tiny packets of energy that move and jump all the time. The bigger the object gets, the more time is incremented in their unaided motion. Make no mistake about it, according to quantum theory, the grain is moving unaided (because, like everything else, it stems from the quantum realm) but it is too big for any noticeable movement and its properties can easily be measured. This lies at the heart of quantum physics. It is encompassed in Heisenberg's breakthrough formulae. This is how things really work. Newton was not wrong, but, his picture was incomplete.

Imagine a grain of sand inside a 3cm-length matchbox. Physicists can calculate how long it will take for the grain to hop to the confines of a 4cm radius - beyond the matchbox (!) - unaided. Do you know how long it would take? Over a thousand times the current age of the universe! Meaning it won't happen! You might as well say that the grain is not moving and be content with that.

Quantum mechanically speaking, not impossible but improbable.

Hence where Cox is coming from with the matchbox and grain quote. The scenario proposed by quantum mechanics is hard to swallow and often hard to understand, but, that is the nature of the universe. Things do really happen that way and this is the only way we can explain what happens in certain experiments. It is just a matter of people getting past their prejudices. The Newtonian era is long gone and there have been many breakthroughs - not that the majority of laymen are aware, though.

To bring it back to the main topic, as I feel that we have gone off on a tangent, anyone who thinks lucid dreaming is a ridiculous notion is far behind. People experience them. Most importantly, where have these people been for the past 40-odd years - which is how long it's been since the phenomenon was scientifically recognised as fact for the first time?
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Ryan
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Re: Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

Postby Ryan » 14 Jun 2012 01:21

ROFL
Sorry, my bad.
You didn't get the reference... I'm just messin around. :)
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Jack Reacher
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Re: Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

Postby Jack Reacher » 14 Jun 2012 02:46

Shouldn't it be just Social, not Societal? Or is Societal actually a word and im just derping?
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

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HAGART
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Re: Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

Postby HAGART » 16 Jun 2012 06:06

Beethoven wrote: most people have only one thing on their mind when they get lucid, and it's not football!!!


Yea, it's more to do with the cheerleaders!

I remember when I started telling my close family about my lucid dreams and how I was starting to get sleep paralysis and out of body experiences. It felt like I was coming out of the closet so to speak. Some people just don't understand, but they except it because they are your family. But they don't consider me a freak; They are a little jealous probably. Sometimes I live more in a few hours before awakening than I can ever live for the rest of the day but I still haven't been able to convey that to them But I only share it with close family, (and random strangers on the internet :lol: ); you got to know who to trust.

It's also good to test the water as you call it to see if someone is interested in dreams to begin with or else the concept goes way over their heads.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

SGraham
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Re: Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

Postby SGraham » 16 Jun 2012 06:36

Yeah when i told my friends about lucid dreaming they thought it was real, but they just kinda figured ahh..
he'll never do it. After many times of saying " oh tonight for sure " i finaly had one and boy did it feel good to prove them wrong 8-)
How do you define real ?
think it over it's a tough question...

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Summerlander
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Re: Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

Postby Summerlander » 18 Jun 2012 01:22

And you can also prove to them that it isn't as hard as people think, SGraham! ;)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Worldenterer1
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Re: Societal perceptions of Lucid Dreaming

Postby Worldenterer1 » 18 Jun 2012 02:12

SGraham wrote:Yeah when i told my friends about lucid dreaming they thought it was real, but they just kinda figured ahh..
he'll never do it. After many times of saying " oh tonight for sure " i finaly had one and boy did it feel good to prove them wrong 8-)


Boss
Lucid Dream Count: 10
Normal Dream Count: 100+
Goal for next LD: Think with portals.


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