What are your religious views?

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What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

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Worldenterer1
Posts: 347
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Location: Earth

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Worldenterer1 » 02 Jul 2012 06:39

This is such a good thread! :D
Lucid Dream Count: 10
Normal Dream Count: 100+
Goal for next LD: Think with portals.

Ty8200
Posts: 105
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 08:26

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ty8200 » 02 Jul 2012 06:43

Worldenterer1 wrote:This is such a good thread! :D


:D I agree. It's nice to share ideas, concepts and thoughts, all while respecting one another. Religion based forums can get very heated, so I'm glad this one maintains a good level of civility. Have you had any luck thinking with portals in a LD, yet?
Reality is the sight, where reflection is the truth.
Water is the glass, where deception is the stone.
Reality is the cage, where limit is the lock.
Mind is the key, where only the blind can see.

rdc8214
Posts: 17
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 09:54
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby rdc8214 » 02 Jul 2012 17:47

Think of it this way. If lions had houses, meat packing plants, and everything humans do, they'd probably act the same. I think the reason some believe animals don't contemplate the future, is because they do things humans don't need to do anymore. Like hunt for example. If a lion sees a meal, he won't have a need to think: "Hmm, should I eat this delicious buffalo, or go on being hungry". He'll just go and eat. But that lion wouldn't do the same if there were 10 buffalo, he'd be outnumbered. I saw this on a program. The lion attacked a baby buffalo, the baby buffalo was able to get back to his herd and the whole herd stampeded toward the lion, now cowering away. The lion actually did contemplate. He played out the scenario in his head. And he probably won't be attacking a baby buffalo that strayed a little outside his herd.
First i would say that lions and all other animals, they have had the chance to progress like humans. Also humans do still hunt. We hunt for very different reasons though. Hunting animals has become a sport for some. Sure the meat gets donated or stored away in a freezer, but sometimes the most gratification comes from the trophy. I know guys who will wait hours, days in order to down a big buck. They pass up every other deer they see sometimes 4 or 5 bucks a day. The lion will always be hungry and chances are it will never fast on purpose. If a lion is hungry it eats if a human is hungry it can choose not to eat and can choose not to until it's death. Another thing is if a human is outnumbered when hunting humans (war) it calls in reinforcements, artillery, or an airstrike. Possibly even still attacking, when outnumbered, by his/her self for a cause. All of these show a distinct difference in "thinking"by an animal and THINKING by a human.

As for pondering the future, it's unknown whether they do this or not. We can't know what an animal's belief system is. Perhaps their only goal is to survive, and so is human's if you think about it. We simply go about it in a more convenient and easier way. We're hungry, we go to the store. Wild animals, however, need to hunt their own food. (Well, I can't speak for all humans. There are tribes that still survive the old fashioned way. Actually running after their meal until it tires out. Amazing.)

An animals belief system is non existent. They are reactionary. We have learned those easier and more convenient ways of growing, gathering food through our abilities. We document and learn and pass on information for future generations. Most of this was done by scientists who were concerned with world hunger. How many animals are concerned with world hunger :D ?

I think the contemplation, and pondering is really not how it seems. If you think about it, what we contemplate, is really just thoughts about how to get what we want in the now. Animals do this, just in a simpler/faster way. Animals may question their existence. Who's to say they don't? We can't understand them any better then they can understand us. I like to think every living thing has a soul.

I can understand everything having a soul I just really hope it's not true. If it is then i might be eating the flesh of my grandfather who's soul was in the cow that i bought from the butcher. I believe everything has spirit which is also in humans. It's our spark. The divine spark is from god and is different from the spirit.


Haha, look at my signature! I mean, I definitely think it's a possibility. Of course, I'm thinking more along the lines that our entire existence is a dream, and the dreams that we have at night are dreams inside of dreams. But these Aborigines think more like, when we have dreams at night, we are actually waking up, right. It's an interesting concept, and I think it's fully possible.[/quote]

Yeah they think life occurs in sleep. If alternate realities are possible then who's to say the decisions we make "awake" don't affect our existence when we wake. So for example "I want to be rich" so i go to sleep and enter a thread of existence where it is possible for me to achieve that when i wake. However, where i left would still exist and i would still be poor b/c it is part of someone else's existence thread for me to be poor. Just a thought.
Have you ever wondered what animals dream? My cat right now is on my legs twitching away. I've never dreamed i was an animal, but i wonder if they ever dream they are a human? LOL my cat would straight up open everything that he could and eat, eat, eat then eat, eat, eat some more. Also if my cat could fly in a LD he would never stop chasing birds lol.

SGraham
Posts: 119
Joined: 13 Jun 2012 00:59
Location: California

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby SGraham » 02 Jul 2012 18:24

rdc8214 wrote:if my cat could fly in a LD he would never stop chasing birds lol.


lol thats pretty funny im pretty sure all my dog's dream about is eating stuff and chasing small animals to :lol: but any way on a more serious note, about all this dreams are alternate dimensions and stuff. i have always thought that proof that dreams are in our head is because in dreams there is no recourse for your actions. say if in a dream i go steal a car and drive it all around , upon waking up and then falling asleep again its like a reset button was hit i dont need to answer for steeling the car. and also i have dreams about stuff only i know like what i was thinking about over the course of the day which would meens that im not entering anyone else's reality.
How do you define real ?
think it over it's a tough question...

Ty8200
Posts: 105
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 08:26

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ty8200 » 03 Jul 2012 00:14

rdc8214 wrote:First i would say that lions and all other animals, they have had the chance to progress like humans. Also humans do still hunt. We hunt for very different reasons though. Hunting animals has become a sport for some. Sure the meat gets donated or stored away in a freezer, but sometimes the most gratification comes from the trophy. I know guys who will wait hours, days in order to down a big buck. They pass up every other deer they see sometimes 4 or 5 bucks a day. The lion will always be hungry and chances are it will never fast on purpose. If a lion is hungry it eats if a human is hungry it can choose not to eat and can choose not to until it's death.


I don't think humans have progressed. If anything, we've gone backwards. We will eventually lead to the destruction of the planet, sooner than it should. We may have advanced in the form of extending our own lives, with medicine, and making life easier, with technological advancements. But I don't think it's worth it when we're destroying the planet. Animals don't do this. They don't use the planets vital resources the way we do. They don't pollute the air and cause sickness.

No, humans don't hunt, they kill. Like you said, it's a game to them. They are at no shortage of food, they do it for the pleasure of ending an innocent life. If you're a hunter, I could see why you'd try and say animals don't have souls, as a way of justifying your actions.

A lion sure can decide not to eat. If one of his cubs is hungry, the lion will give them the food before himself. I've seen this happen in the wild. Humans are just stupid versions of animals, in the long run.

Another thing is if a human is outnumbered when hunting humans (war) it calls in reinforcements, artillery, or an airstrike. Possibly even still attacking, when outnumbered, by his/her self for a cause. All of these show a distinct difference in "thinking"by an animal and THINKING by a human.


Did I not just share the story of the baby buffalo running to his herd in order to get these "reinforcements"? And again, this shows a level of stupidity in humans if they're going to attack when outnumbered.

An animals belief system is non existent. They are reactionary. We have learned those easier and more convenient ways of growing, gathering food through our abilities. We document and learn and pass on information for future generations. Most of this was done by scientists who were concerned with world hunger. How many animals are concerned with world hunger :D ?


Humans correlate with humans. The information we pass on is just another way of instinctive living. Papa lions teach their cubs to hunt. It's the same with humans, except 99% of crap they teach is useless. Humans are reactionary too. We may go about things slightly differently, but usually, it's less productive than what a lion, or other animal would do. Secondly, there is no living thing without a belief system. It's what they believe to be true, given their circumstances. Humans just over-complicate this by adding religion. Which in turn, starts wars. Go humans!

I can understand everything having a soul I just really hope it's not true. If it is then i might be eating the flesh of my grandfather who's soul was in the cow that i bought from the butcher. I believe everything has spirit which is also in humans. It's our spark. The divine spark is from god and is different from the spirit.


That's why I'm a vegetarian. ;) We can get everything we need from plants. Eating animals is a choice.

Yeah they think life occurs in sleep. If alternate realities are possible then who's to say the decisions we make "awake" don't affect our existence when we wake. So for example "I want to be rich" so i go to sleep and enter a thread of existence where it is possible for me to achieve that when i wake. However, where i left would still exist and i would still be poor b/c it is part of someone else's existence thread for me to be poor. Just a thought.



It's a strange thing to think about. Maybe we'll never know.

Have you ever wondered what animals dream? My cat right now is on my legs twitching away. I've never dreamed i was an animal, but i wonder if they ever dream they are a human? LOL my cat would straight up open everything that he could and eat, eat, eat then eat, eat, eat some more. Also if my cat could fly in a LD he would never stop chasing birds lol.


Haha, I've seen them do that. I wonder what they're dreaming about. No doubt chasing birds.
Reality is the sight, where reflection is the truth.
Water is the glass, where deception is the stone.
Reality is the cage, where limit is the lock.
Mind is the key, where only the blind can see.

Ty8200
Posts: 105
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 08:26

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ty8200 » 03 Jul 2012 00:27

i have always thought that proof that dreams are in our head is because in dreams there is no recourse for your actions. say if in a dream i go steal a car and drive it all around , upon waking up and then falling asleep again its like a reset button was hit i dont need to answer for steeling the car.


Yes, but you also have to take into consideration that the laws (not government laws, per se, but the "laws" of physics, ect...) don't match those of the dream world. It may be that when you were born, the dream started, and through observation, you decided what was real, and what wasn't. The things you were told would have been programmed into yourself already. Stealing a car would be bad in this reality, but perhaps in the dream world, there is an infinite amount of cars and they were free.

and also i have dreams about stuff only i know like what i was thinking about over the course of the day which would meens that im not entering anyone else's reality.


I don't think the concept is that you go into some other person's reality. It's that you are you, and you dream reality and your reality is a dream. Or everything is a dream.. Who knows...
Reality is the sight, where reflection is the truth.
Water is the glass, where deception is the stone.
Reality is the cage, where limit is the lock.
Mind is the key, where only the blind can see.

SGraham
Posts: 119
Joined: 13 Jun 2012 00:59
Location: California

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby SGraham » 03 Jul 2012 01:43

Ty8200 wrote:Yes, but you also have to take into consideration that the laws (not government laws, per se, but the "laws" of physics, ect...) don't match those of the dream world. It may be that when you were born, the dream started, and through observation, you decided what was real, and what wasn't.


well yeah i get that , my point is the dream world isn't continuous each dream is a whole new "plot" and doesnt start off were it left off. therefore i consider the waking world "real" because it is continuous.
How do you define real ?
think it over it's a tough question...

Ty8200
Posts: 105
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 08:26

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ty8200 » 03 Jul 2012 02:54

SGraham wrote:well yeah i get that , my point is the dream world isn't continuous each dream is a whole new "plot" and doesnt start off were it left off. therefore i consider the waking world "real" because it is continuous.


Well, that may not be true. Apparently, we have about 10 dreams per night. I'm sure you can't remember all of them, and I'm sure there are some nights you don't dream at all. Maybe the aborigines have developed the ability to remember every dream, and thus found a connection. Perhaps the dream world isn't connected to this REM sleep at all, just that dreams are easier to remember while in this state. Who knows...
Reality is the sight, where reflection is the truth.
Water is the glass, where deception is the stone.
Reality is the cage, where limit is the lock.
Mind is the key, where only the blind can see.

rdc8214
Posts: 17
Joined: 22 Apr 2012 09:54
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby rdc8214 » 03 Jul 2012 03:50

I don't think humans have progressed. If anything, we've gone backwards. We will eventually lead to the destruction of the planet, sooner than it should. We may have advanced in the form of extending our own lives, with medicine, and making life easier, with technological advancements.
Contradiction you said we haven't progressed, but that we have advanced? I
But I don't think it's worth it when we're destroying the planet. Animals don't do this. They don't use the planets vital resources the way we do. They don't pollute the air and cause sickness.

Wrong: Cows pollute the planet everyday it's called methane :D Meteors destroyed the earth before that and according to my beliefs the earth will destroy us before it allows us to destroy it. It's all a big recycling plant. I thought you would like that. There has been at least three earth ages. ohh and save the soul of a human before you worry about saving the planet in the long run it will work out.

No, humans don't hunt, they kill. Like you said, it's a game to them. They are at no shortage of food, they do it for the pleasure of ending an innocent life. If you're a hunter, I could see why you'd try and say animals don't have souls, as a way of justifying your actions.

I stopped hunting when I started appreciating a live squirrel more than a dead squirrel. Heck i would just salt the tail and give it to the cats to play with. Contrary to what some people may tell you...Squirrel sucks to eat. That doesn't mean they have a soul though. They can't...it doesn't make sense. I do hunt plants and mushrooms though I guess that's for fun, but it's also for knowledge.
A lion sure can decide not to eat. If one of his cubs is hungry, the lion will give them the food before himself. I've seen this happen in the wild. Humans are just stupid versions of animals, in the long run. You know what i meant and that is not a valid argument.
Another thing is if a human is outnumbered when hunting humans (war) it calls in reinforcements, artillery, or an airstrike. Possibly even still attacking, when outnumbered, by his/her self for a cause. All of these show a distinct difference in "thinking"by an animal and THINKING by a human.


Did I not just share the story of the baby buffalo running to his herd in order to get these "reinforcements"? And again, this shows a level of stupidity in humans if they're going to attack when outnumbered.
Really.....stupidity? It's called cognitive thought and preparation with planning and how do i say this BALLS. I was outnumbered in a paintball game one time surprised two opponents hiding in tall grass gave quarter and was fired on. Next time i shoot first.



Humans correlate with humans. The information we pass on is just another way of instinctive living. Papa lions teach their cubs to hunt. It's the same with humans, except 99% of crap they teach is useless. Humans are reactionary too. We may go about things slightly differently, but usually, it's less productive than what a lion, or other animal would do. Secondly, there is no living thing without a belief system. It's what they believe to be true, given their circumstances. Humans just over-complicate this by adding religion. Which in turn, starts wars. Go humans!

This is where I begin to question me even typing this...............ughhh. Really a belief system based on what? I know your going to say i can't prove they don't but that's like saying i didn't take the last cookie but i was the only one in the kitchen. Nobody can prove it, but really? So I dodge animals on the road, don't hunt anymore and go out of my way to not kill animals unless it presents a threat to civilization (rats, who do happen to spread disease....another wrong fact from you) However if someone said i would go to hell or wherever else they could imagine for killing an animal I would do it just to make them mad (sorry theoretical animal). I guarantee killing animals or not killing animals is not going to matter in the end. It's how you feel about doing it that could matter. Hence my whole point we are here to learn.

I can understand everything having a soul I just really hope it's not true. If it is then i might be eating the flesh of my grandfather who's soul was in the cow that i bought from the butcher. I believe everything has spirit which is also in humans. It's our spark. The divine spark is from god and is different from the spirit.


That's why I'm a vegetarian. ;) We can get everything we need from plants. Eating animals is a choice.
AGREED
Yeah they think life occurs in sleep. If alternate realities are possible then who's to say the decisions we make "awake" don't affect our existence when we wake. So for example "I want to be rich" so i go to sleep and enter a thread of existence where it is possible for me to achieve that when i wake. However, where i left would still exist and i would still be poor b/c it is part of someone else's existence thread for me to be poor. Just a thought.



It's a strange thing to think about. Maybe we'll never know.

Have you ever wondered what animals dream? My cat right now is on my legs twitching away. I've never dreamed i was an animal, but i wonder if they ever dream they are a human? LOL my cat would straight up open everything that he could and eat, eat, eat then eat, eat, eat some more. Also if my cat could fly in a LD he would never stop chasing birds lol.


Haha, I've seen them do that. I wonder what they're dreaming about. No doubt chasing birds.[/quote]

Ultimately we won't agree, had fun, but eating my grandpa's turkey flesh is making me tired.

SGraham
Posts: 119
Joined: 13 Jun 2012 00:59
Location: California

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby SGraham » 03 Jul 2012 04:52

Ty8200 wrote:Well, that may not be true. Apparently, we have about 10 dreams per night. I'm sure you can't remember all of them, and I'm sure there are some nights you don't dream at all. Maybe the aborigines have developed the ability to remember every dream, and thus found a connection. Perhaps the dream world isn't connected to this REM sleep at all, just that dreams are easier to remember while in this state. Who knows...

Exactly we will never know, perhaps everything is an illusion , in that case i chose the illusion that seems the most real.
How do you define real ?
think it over it's a tough question...


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