Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

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Jack Reacher
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Jack Reacher » 26 Jul 2012 05:42

I didnt mean studying is meditation, what I meant to say is that it is my substitute for it.
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Peter » 26 Jul 2012 06:05

I sounds like you do meditate. Focusing on something, whether it's imagery, sounds, or breathing is a form of meditative induction


this is what frustrates me, what is mediation?, by your definition we all meditate then some exotic or elitists would say that we only think we do.

Of course we all focus in some way and get to a single point of awareness and more so in a WILD but I dont consider that I meditate in any formal sense.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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jamiealexander
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby jamiealexander » 26 Jul 2012 17:10

Peter wrote:
I sounds like you do meditate. Focusing on something, whether it's imagery, sounds, or breathing is a form of meditative induction


this is what frustrates me, what is mediation?, by your definition we all meditate then some exotic or elitists would say that we only think we do.

Of course we all focus in some way and get to a single point of awareness and more so in a WILD but I dont consider that I meditate in any formal sense.


I hear ya.

Technically it's a meditative induction, but whether people enter the trance state all the time is another matter. My view is that unless your little voice has switched off and you can feel crazy stuff happening with your mind/body then you're only relaxing, even though you think you are doing meditative techniques.

People that perform wilds could in fact be falling into a trance each time they try to go into the dream, so you could say in an unofficial way the trance state is the link between both worlds. I don't know what state people are in when they wild so it's impossible to make that assumption.

Another reason why I think DEILDs are so easy is because you're already in the trance state when you wake up, before you do all that good stuff like think about your day or open your eyes.

Could be a link in an unofficial way.

But them I think meditation is a trance that can be done through techniques. Some people think it's a big important thing that needs to be done wearing orange, siting in the lotus position and up the biggest mountain in Tibet.

Just depends what you think.

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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Peter » 27 Jul 2012 05:17

People that perform wilds could in fact be falling into a trance each time they try to go into the dream, so you could say in an unofficial way the trance state is the link between both worlds


One of my issues and I say all the time is that the use of common words distorts the experience and then inhibits growth. I use a sleep monitor the change from awake to lucid via WILD is going from wakefulness to REM. You may get HI along the way, you might go OBE to get there but using the word trance gives it all another meaning, are you in control in a trance as I certainly am in control during the process to a LD via WILD. That is part of what makes it a LD
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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jamiealexander
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby jamiealexander » 27 Jul 2012 06:35

That's why I use the term trance instead of meditation, looking at hypnogogia, self-hypnosis, or all that good stuff.

To me, a trance is when you are fully in the zone. When you are in complete control in a state of consciousness that is 100% awareness.

You can go into a trance in any way you like: meditative or hypnotic inductions, but once you are fully in the zone that is a trance.

And a lucid dream is when you move from the waking world into the dream world. Now you're lucid.

So you have 2 complete states of self-awareness: when you're lucid (in the dream), and when you're in the trance (in the real world).

Anything else in the dream world is just a dream. Anything else in the real world is just relaxation.

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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Peter » 27 Jul 2012 21:28

we are now starting to look at states and process without the labels and that is a lot more fun. I think meditation, trance if we want to use those terms are always here and part of normal daily life dreamlife. A daydream is a trance or meditation and so is any focus but in putting labels on them we are seeking purpose within each state or wanting each state to get us some place else. My only concern with this is when it makes a process lineiar where it does not need to be or cannot be and a classic is where people are trying for SP as they feel then need to get there as a step by step process to lucid dream when it isnt so.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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jamiealexander
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby jamiealexander » 27 Jul 2012 22:10

I don't think waking life has a label. I know we are in different states of consciousness all the time, but I wouldn't call it a trance or meditation.

I think the problem most people have is what they believe meditation is, when in fact they are not. It's pretty hard for me to explain because I don't know the official terms.

Imagine you have a line down the middle of a piece of paper. On one side of that paper is normal life. There is many states of consciousness at this side of the line. One the other side of the line is the trance state. It's also more than just one simple level of consciousness.

But when people believe they are meditating they never cross that line into the trance state. Once inside you can explore it and see what it has to offer. But you can't do that until you are in the trance. I think you can tell once you're in, but once in you can get deeper and play about more. I think the magic happens in the trance state.

Now this is where I think you're meaning people follow a linear path. They read something in a book and try to follow it. I think they should just except they are individual and play about with it to see what works for them. But instead they get frustrated because they can't follow a set path.

So basically I think people should try to get into the trance state them play around and see what works for them. Forget about what induction method you used to get into it. It doesn't really matter. Just get into it, then see what it's all about.

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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Peter » 27 Jul 2012 22:28

Yes I can agree with that, whatever works works and this is as simple as it needs to be. I see a lot of frustration in people trying to acheive a lucid dream and wanting to know if they are doing it right. If they lucid dream then its yes and if they dont its no. Reaching a state like seeing HI is fine but its not always necessary and can be fleeting or of the instant and then into a lucid dream at times. Also most of this realates to WILD which seems to be the way to go in a lot of peoples minds but is difficult at times.

From what I have read of medatition it appears that a lot of people get to a relaxed state but not an altered state of mind that could be called trance or whatever. I sometimes sit up in bed and relax and drop into where I am seeing HI. At this point I open my eyes and will check my ZEO monitor and see that I have gone from waking to REM in a couple of minutes - meditation I dont know, altered state - yes.

Its an intuitive path that is gained by experience not a liner path where you can tick off boxes and say "well I got to HI today and so thats done, tomorrow I will get to SP and then on the 3rd night I will LD" and if you do this and it does get you there it is more by seeding intent and will be very hard to repeat.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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jamiealexander
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby jamiealexander » 28 Jul 2012 17:01

I think you see linear progression especially in the astral projection grapevine.

I think altered states are great for more than WILD's. A lot of my lucid dreams comes from just becoming aware I'm dreaming inside the dream. I put a lot of this down to practicing my awareness in the trance state.

I don't really see too much HI, so I understand what you're saying. I still see it, but I don't have to watch it for 5 minutes before I go into the dream. And it doesn't come rushing around me slowly getting bigger until it engulfs me.

Now I don't know if that happens to people. It's hard to tell, but that's the impression I get from what I read. Once I start seeing HI, or sometimes if I don't, I'll usually go straight into the dream. Sometimes I keep my consciousness; sometimes I DILD; sometimes I just dream. I think the trance state is amazing for DILD's. Obviously it's good for WILD's but it depends what time of the day/night you're doing it.

I agree people should just play about and gain experience. Not follow a certain path. I just hope they play about with it once they pass that line and are in an altered state.

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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Peter » 28 Jul 2012 23:16

Its all such a complicated mix and never exactly the same. If I WILD sometimes it is as easy as waking up in the morning. I realax and wait from spots of light to appear and then just put myself there in some way and I am lucid and in the dream. Other times I go to sleep for an instant and awake in the dream, others I will see a scene start to form up and again put myself there and sometimes I get a good sleep.

Its all a nice mix and I am still learning heaps about myself and all these states you talk about. I also get dry runs of a couple of weeks where I dont get a lucid dream and sometimes lose dream recall but I dont get concerned about this as it always comes back.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born


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