What are your religious views?

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.

What are your religious views?

Deeply religious - I follow a strict religious code and trust my life to a higher authority
22
19%
Somewhat religious - I believe in a higher intelligence watching over us
38
32%
Agnostic - I'm on the fence; you really can't say either way at this time
29
25%
Atheist - I don't believe there is a higher intelligence watching over us
29
25%
 
Total votes: 118

Ty8200
Posts: 105
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 08:26

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ty8200 » 28 Jul 2012 20:17

Summerlander wrote:
Peter wrote:After a lifetime of LD and all manner of experiences I am yet to be convinced that anything is outside of our head, I have not said I agree of disagree but that I dont know and have no proof of anything. As for the debate that there just must be because... well no there does not need to be at all. I would like there to be and I dont know and dont really speculate on it too much.

As for the sentence on paranormal experiences, I don't see what experiencing them in a living body would matter.


It would matter if it is all in out head and if when the power is turned off there is nothing anymore and so no experience.

So many people start to believe after say one near death experience, I have had some of these and they are the same as an OBE but in real time and possibly a trick of awareness and nothing more, I dont know. I do expect that one experiences and sometimes the desperation of the moment will greatly sway an opinion and become fact in someones mind.
This is a good thing but not for me


I've experienced both lucid dreams and OOBEs. I see no reason, so far, to disbelieve that they are only a type of WILD. As far as I'm aware, lucid dreaming can recreate any kind of experience. There is no going out of the body because you are your body. With the development of your body (especially your brain) came the development of your consciousness and sense of self. Hence why we have come so far since babyhood.

You need your brain to experience the world. You need a functional brain to have a sense of self. Everything, including your waking perception, happens in your brain. There is a simple analogy for the phenomenon of consciousness. Like dust comes together in space to produce heat and light (the birth of stars eventuated by gravity) so does consciousness arise and develop as a byproduct of biological systems as complex as the ones in the human cerebrum.

On NDEs... despite what you might have heard as regards to verification, it is all anecdotal evidence. they are traumatically induced OOBEs. Actually, I will go as far as to say that it happened to me once and here is an even better name for it that I propose: TILDs (trauma-initiated lucid dreams).

When they say the brain isn't active during such experiences... it is false. More appropriately, one can say that in certain cases there is no measurable brain activity. But it is only not measurable due to the equipment available. EEG is not enough to dig deeper. Someone like Michael Persinger, on the other hand, can measure what can't be detected in most hospitals. He will tell you that the brain is very much active beyond the EEG scope and in tandem with conscious experience in such trauma-induced states.

I'm sorry but I am a very scientifically-minded individual and as far as I can tell, death is equivalent to the pre-birth state. The only way you can come back after death is if the universe stumbles upon the right coordinates in space that bring about your awareness (and you wouldn't necessarily be the same person).


I think what we need to understand is that there are no real facts. Facts are what we believe to be the truth, through experimentation, repeated tests, and observation. But what we see through our human eyes, is only true to our eyes. It may be true to our human eyes and ears, but there is still much we won't and can't ever know, through eyes, ears, or all of the technology in the world, which is based on these things.

We will never agree because we are too different. No matter how persuasive you or I could be, it won't change anything. We have our beliefs, and neither are right or wrong, true or false. Saying otherwise is beyond our human power, and beyond our human perception. We will believe what we want to believe, and that's it. With all of that said, it's still interesting to see the amount humans, being the same animal, can be so different. Thank you for the debate, guys.

P.S. Anybody watching the London 2012 Olympics?
Reality is the sight, where reflection is the truth.
Water is the glass, where deception is the stone.
Reality is the cage, where limit is the lock.
Mind is the key, where only the blind can see.

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Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 28 Jul 2012 23:08

good thread and like this sort of debate - cheers

Watching some of it and liked the road race - always nice when its a gutsy win and not driven by teams and controlled to much.
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

Dreamer3456
Posts: 24
Joined: 18 Jul 2012 02:34

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Dreamer3456 » 29 Jul 2012 01:56

I'm catholic and I believe in god and the bible but I disagree with religious people who judge others because they don't believe in the same thing or because they do things that they don't agree with or atheists who mock religious people. Everyone has the right to believe in what they want to believe and we shouldn't judge other who don't. PS. So far as OBEs and Near death experiences, they may be just in or heads or not "who knows?".

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Peter
Posts: 1951
Joined: 26 May 2011 08:02
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Peter » 29 Jul 2012 04:34

I agree with that, my beliefs or lack off are merely my opinion and thats all and I am happy to debate this and dont expect to sway anyone or make any judgement on others. Theres room for all of us
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

SGraham
Posts: 119
Joined: 13 Jun 2012 00:59
Location: California

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby SGraham » 29 Jul 2012 17:51

Dreamer3456 wrote:I'm catholic and I believe in god and the bible but I disagree with religious people who judge others because they don't believe in the same thing or because they do things that they don't agree with
yeah thats a good way to look at it , because after all if you do the right thing as a person does it matter what you believe in ?
How do you define real ?
think it over it's a tough question...

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Jack Reacher
Posts: 490
Joined: 21 Jan 2012 05:03
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Jack Reacher » 29 Jul 2012 21:25

Well yeah, because what you believe in defines what you think is the right thing.
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

Ty8200
Posts: 105
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 08:26

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Ty8200 » 29 Jul 2012 23:56

Jack Reacher wrote:Well yeah, because what you believe in defines what you think is the right thing.


I think Graham simply means the general code of ethics everyone should follow. Don't intentionally hurt someone physically, emotionally, mentally, ect... In my opinion, it doesn't take a belief in anything to follow this.
Reality is the sight, where reflection is the truth.
Water is the glass, where deception is the stone.
Reality is the cage, where limit is the lock.
Mind is the key, where only the blind can see.

User avatar
Jack Reacher
Posts: 490
Joined: 21 Jan 2012 05:03
Location: New Zealand

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Jack Reacher » 30 Jul 2012 05:50

In my opinion your general code of ethics is a belief.
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

Slip
Posts: 18
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 19:46
Location: USA

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby Slip » 30 Jul 2012 21:59

I'm a proud LDS. :P People have some weiiird misconceptions about Mormonism. I've had someone ask me how many Moms I have.. (one, if you're curious.) Some people think that we're a cult of vampire slayers (thanks, Stephenie Meyer, thanks.) A couple of people think that we worship inanimate objects. I also embrace a few Buddhist beliefs.

jjayebass
Posts: 7
Joined: 30 Jul 2012 21:02

Re: What are your religious views?

Postby jjayebass » 31 Jul 2012 03:15

though I consider myself atheist, at least in terms of this quiz, as I do not believe there is a "higher intelligence" watching over us, I do consider myself a spiritual person. I have recently found myself gravitating towards eastern philosophies, specifically Buddhism, because they seemed to be more concerned with elevating ones self as person, than worshiping a deity. I am also very interested in the dismatling of the ego in an attempt to become more in touch with the universe as a whole. I do believe there are things in the universe that are far too complex for our human minds to comprehend or fathom, which could be considered a "higher power". but I think that if any of these incomprehensible forces or aspects of the universe have "intelligence", that they wouldn't concern themselves with what we as humans are doing, at least not enough to be purposely "watching over us"

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