Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

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jamiealexander
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby jamiealexander » 29 Jul 2012 00:02

I think that's what's great about it. If you experiment in the states you always find something new. If it was all the same it wouldn't be as good.

I sometimes don't do so good for a few days if I can't meditate. Sometimes I work so much that my sleep pattern is almost non-existent and I can't be bothered to meditate after writing all day/night, but like you it usually springs back stronger. I really need to make sure I'm meditating every day, not just before sleep.

Do you ever get this: sometimes I go straight into the dream, but my body is still in paralysis. I don't have it much in my bed. Instead I'm being carried through different dream worlds with someone holding me up. I can even look down and see my legs dangling lol. Then after a few minutes I get put down.

The first time I ever WILD'd I done it 4 times in one morning. I got the person carrying me, and when I landed I woke up straight away so kept doing it. 2 of those times I got taken through 4 different worlds and it was the exact same sequence and route. The exact same. Very cool how are mind can do this. And sometimes I get carried through the exact same dream world that I had a dream about weeks previous. There's something special about our mind we just don't know yet.

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Ryan
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Ryan » 29 Jul 2012 00:27

Allow me to give you my perspective...

What is meditation? Meditation is the ability to focus your mind/consciousness for extended periods of time. That's really it. There are MANY ways to accomplish this... and there are, literally, many things you can do with that focused consciousness.

The "dictionary" definition of Lucid Dreaming is being aware that one is dreaming WHILE one is experiencing the dream.

To me... lucid dreaming isn't something you DO, it's a state of mind that you ARE. You are aware that you're experiencing a reality that isn't this physical reality.

So to your direct question of "Is Lucid Dreaming a form of meditation"? Nope... while it's not a form of meditation, lucid dreaming (or becoming lucidly aware in the non-physical) can be a result from meditation, for when one learns to focus the mind and experience their own consciousness on a one-to-one basis, a myriad of new sensations and experiences open up to that individual consciousness.
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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Peter » 29 Jul 2012 00:54

Do you ever get this: sometimes I go straight into the dream, but my body is still in paralysis. I don't have it much in my bed. Instead I'm being carried through different dream worlds with someone holding me up. I can even look down and see my legs dangling lol. Then after a few minutes I get put down


Nope that would be a new one for me, i find the OBE entries the most fascinating, the fact that I have this energy body that appears to emerge from my sleeping body and I can get up and walk away and then into a dreamscape. This process gets more and more amazing not less over time.

Ryan, nice way to put it as when you are lucid its a total immersion in the experience
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HAGART
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby HAGART » 29 Jul 2012 03:29

I edited this and added this introduction: (I wrote things even I am confused about. This is hard to put into words. But I hope this makes sense in the end... or if not just ask me to clarify... BUT IT'S HARD TO PUT INTO WORDS!)

Having never meditated before, but still a lucid dreamer, I asked whether it was a FORM of meditation in some way. I think I got my answer and I am glad it struck a chord with you guys. This is a good discussion.

I didn't respond for a while because if I did, all I would say is: I AGREE WITH ALL SIDES. But I started this, and now that I let things get discussed, I will continue it. We are in all sorts of mental states when awake and asleep and they are defined by wording and semantics that doesn't matter in the realm of subconsciousness. Or perhaps even consciousness for that matter. And of course you don't need to wear an orange Shoulin Monk robe and sit in the hills of Tibet to meditate or experience an 'altered' state of consciousness. I put 'altered' in quotations because don't we all go in and out of different states of consciousness whether we know it or not? For example, my Grandmother is 90 and she has never lucid dreamed and doesn't record her dreams, but she enters the dream world just like the rest of us and just doesn't feel that it is important. BUT EVERYBODY DOES IT WHETHER THEY KNOW IT OR NOT.

Sometimes when I am in a dream and lucid, I am only semi-lucid. I sorta know that it isn't real but don't realize that I am in a dream... perhaps more like being immersed in a movie and entranced by it, but still knowing it isn't real. Other times it is a pure 'conventional dream' and other times I am in an alternate reality and completely lucid. But sometimes there isn't always black and white, one way or the other; There is a lot of grey area of awareness in our minds. THERE IS A LOT OF OVERLAP BETWEEN OUR AREWARENESS. (or awarenesses or awareni... What is the plural of awareness!?) But anyway, that accounts for all the different states we label like Sleep Paralysis or Out of body, or Wake Induced Lucid Dreams, or Dream Induced Lucid Dreams. They are all facets of awareness and overlap of mind and how aware you are of your physical body or not.

Even if you examine how aware you were in your dream or even what you did earlier today, it's hard to recall completely what happened or how you felt about it and we lose ourselves in tangent thoughts all the time. There is always some grey area of consciousness when we aren't quite here and not quite there. (But what is HERE and what is THERE?)

I'm starting to ramble and I'm blowing my own mind. I have a lot of thoughts but it is hard to put into words....
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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jamiealexander
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby jamiealexander » 29 Jul 2012 13:49

I think you answered your own question. Lucid dreaming is a form of consciousness, whereas meditation is a technique to alter your level of consciousness.

It's true we're all in different levels of consciousness throughout the day and while we dream. Who really cares what they are as long as we're having fun.

I don't really class semi-lucid as lucid dreaming. As an example, a few days ago I was around this mat with lots of people. There was this big guy on the mat asking someone to fight him. I knew it was a dream so I stepped up, simply because I knew I couldn't get hurt. I don't class that as a lucid dream, because even though I knew it was a dream, I wasn't completely conscious if you know what I mean. I think I just thought it was a dream, even though I was sure.

The thing is, I still really like these dreams and the stories are always good, so you don't really need to be completely lucid to have fun. Having the option to change something about the dream is always a bonus, but normal dreams are fun too. They all are lol

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HAGART
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby HAGART » 29 Jul 2012 21:28

jamiealexander wrote:I don't really class semi-lucid as lucid dreaming


But it happens and you can be in the middle. I have had dreams about lucid dreaming that are pure dreams and nothing more. I would say it was just a dream. And of course we all know what it is like to be completely lucid. But sometimes I can be in that grey area in between. I don't mean SP or Hypnogogia, but in a dream and not fully aware but not fully unaware either.

For example: just a few days ago I was in a dream and knew it wasn't real. I couldn't get up though. I don't know why. There were some alligators trying to bite me, but I wasn't afraid because I knew it was a dream. I could fling them away with my mind, but they still kept coming back. I was sleeping on the edge of a concrete slope that they kept climbing, and I was growing tired of them. So I simply imagined and willed the ground to move so the slope was further away. Perhaps that is lucid, but I wasn't in complete control and wasn't fully conscious of who I was in waking life.
And this morning I was in a dream and felt the need to tell somebody, (an old school classmate), that I am a lucid dreamer. When I said it, I thought, why am I being so timid and bashful about it? It felt like I was telling important news as if I was coming out of the closet and admitting that I am gay. So I thought let's redo this and start over. And I thought to myself, this is a great thing about lucid dreaming: you can play out scenarios and do it over. But I was never actually lucid. (The story still continued. I wrote before that when I am fully lucid there is no story to follow or to compel and drive me. I am just looking around as if I was awake as I am now.)

So I do think there are various levels of semi-lucidness between a regular dream and a full-blown lucid dream.

Someone wrote a good lucid dream checklist that I copied and pasted to my desktop on my computer and I will paste it here:


Do you know you're dreaming (= semi-lucid)?
Do you know you're dreaming and have your real memories (=lucid)

Are all ones senses active? or is ones dream vivid?

Is the dream stable? Stable dreams have stable dreamscapes and stable characters and stuff looks realistic and does not shift just by looking at it again.

How much control does one have in the dream? In dreams with control one can alter the environment, characters and objects. Note: intentional manipulation is not the same as things changing on their own

Emotional vividness- characters seem to have real minds, that react normally and can inspire emotions in you and you can affect their moods.

Emotional intensity- When in a LD one can be experiencing intense emotion.

Emotional control- the ability to change the dominant emotion one is experiencing.


Sometimes I can theoretically check off some of these, but they can come in any combination and rarely can I truly check them all off. And having some in different combinations makes the different types of lucid or non lucid dreams we have. I believe there is a semi-lucid state, but still it is only a word. You are not quite aware, but aware enough to know it isn't real.
Last edited by HAGART on 31 Jul 2012 21:38, edited 1 time in total.
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KylePK
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby KylePK » 30 Jul 2012 06:42

jamiealexander wrote:
Peter wrote:
I really think lucid dreamers who are not practicing meditation will be severely leaving lucid dreams on the table.


I dont agree with this as I dont meditate in any sense that I am aware of and have a lot of lucid dreams.


I never said you couldn't have a lot without meditation. I just said you were leaving them on the table. Could you have more if you meditated? Maybe, who knows.


Quality over quantity. It is my belief that lucid dreaming is the highest form of meditation. The goal of meditation is to gain higher awareness, self control, philisophic though in some cases. Basically becoming more of a thinker, a logical, rational, calm, controlled, versatile thinker. Among other things. But lucid dreaming allows you to insert yourself into your own mind, the subconscious mind that you are trying to calm and awaken while meditating. You can achieve all the end goals of meditation from within a lucid dream.

If you want to mediate on a situation to try to figure out the best way to handle it (meditate in the sense of clear you mind so you can focus without distraction on the situation, rather than empty the mind), then you could lucid dream the situation and evaluate all possible results. I see lucid dreaming an incredibly powerful tool, especially when paired with meditation or a meditative mindset.
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jamiealexander
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby jamiealexander » 30 Jul 2012 14:00

KylePK wrote: It is my belief that lucid dreaming is the highest form of meditation.


That's a nice way of looking at it.

I remember when I was young I always had the idea that monks would meditate and end up floating in the air. I know there are videos of a monk physically doing that (no comment), but it's nice to think that the floating was actually happening in a lucid dream.

I would say that the highest form of meditation is slightly higher that lucid dreaming. That is the monks who are completely aware while awake, dreaming, or sleeping. Pure awareness. Obviously lucid dreaming is the highest that nearly all of us will ever go.

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Peter
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby Peter » 30 Jul 2012 15:09

I think that Ryan hit on it but is meditation a tool or a state. Do you meditate to achieve a state or when you get to some state are you then meditating-cant be both
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jamiealexander
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Re: Is Lucid Dreaming a Form of Meditation?

Postby jamiealexander » 30 Jul 2012 16:48

I'd say it's a tool.

Because you still get into the state by using hypnosis, reality checks etc.


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