What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

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Dreamscape101
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What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby Dreamscape101 » 12 Jul 2012 18:53

I get these more often than not, and it's really annoying because I don't know if they are lucid or not.
If in a dream you say to yourself that you are dreaming just out of the blue, is that lucidity?
Here's an example:

So, I was in a random dream and without noticing anything out of the ordinary or doing a reality check my character (me) said they were dreaming. I remember hovering in the air and any other time I would no I was dreaming by this point, but no. Last time I had a proper lucid dream I vowed I would never try to fly again without taking it very slowly (long story), but this time my character just took off and hovered instantly after saying that they were dreaming. Notice I am referring in third person, as if this was me controlling it I wouldn't have flown. I had no memories or anything, and the scene only lasted mere seconds.

I am pretty sure it was a DALD (Dream About Lucid Dreaming) but I want a second opinion. Thank you! :P

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Ryan
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby Ryan » 24 Jul 2012 03:18

Dreamscape101 wrote:I get these more often than not, and it's really annoying because I don't know if they are lucid or not.
If in a dream you say to yourself that you are dreaming just out of the blue, is that lucidity?

If you just say "I'm dreaming!", but not REALLY realize it... then no, that's not a lucid dream.
If you say "I'm dreaming!", and you REALLY know you're dreaming... then that's a lucid dream.

It's all in the Intention and the realization.

Here's an example:

So, I was in a random dream and without noticing anything out of the ordinary or doing a reality check my character (me) said they were dreaming. I remember hovering in the air and any other time I would no I was dreaming by this point, but no. Last time I had a proper lucid dream I vowed I would never try to fly again without taking it very slowly (long story), but this time my character just took off and hovered instantly after saying that they were dreaming. Notice I am referring in third person, as if this was me controlling it I wouldn't have flown. I had no memories or anything, and the scene only lasted mere seconds.

I am pretty sure it was a DALD (Dream About Lucid Dreaming) but I want a second opinion. Thank you! :P

It's difficult to say because you don't really give enough information regarding your state of awareness.

A lucid dream, is a dream in which you KNOW you're dreaming. Did you, at any point during that experience, realize you were dreaming? <-- that's the only question that matters.

Now... to take it one step further, and this is my opinion, if you know you're dreaming *AND* you have what I call a "waking awareness" (meaning you have the same kind of awareness which you have right now), then it would be an astral projection. :)

People have more projections than they realize. The problem is that most people seem to be conditioned to doubt the veracity of their experiences.
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Summerlander
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby Summerlander » 28 Jul 2012 00:59

Guys, if you want to probe deeper into this subject, there is a lot of food for thought in the ingenious and fact-based Lucid Dreaming: The Paradox of Consciousness During Sleep by Celia Green and Charles McCreery.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Peter
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby Peter » 28 Jul 2012 04:36

I have read that one and it is good. It give a lot of insight that is missing from other works
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 04 Aug 2012 06:34

I have dreams about lucid dreaming fairly often, but when those dreams are also extremely vivid, it sometimes becomes difficult to tell whether they were real lucid dreams or dreams about lucid dreaming.

Dreams about lucid dreaming seem "planned" and not spontaneous. What's missing is those thoughts like, "AH HA! Wow I'm lucid! This is so cool! What should I do, I think I will..." That part of the experience creates a distinctly different kind of memory that is quite different from the normal dream memories which fade rather quickly. Lucid dream memories are more like waking reality memories. Regular dream memories are more like "did that really happen?" whereas lucid dream memories are more like "wow, I KNOW that happened" That's mainly what I go by, the quality of the memories after I wake up. If the memory of being lucid is at the same level as the rest of the dream and kind of blends in, then it was a dream about lucid dreaming. If the memory of becoming lucid really stands out from the rest of the dream and was more like a waking reality, then I know I was really lucid.

I hope I don't offend anyone, but my opinion is that quoite a few of the "lucid dreams" people are having, including me, are just dreams about lucid dreaming. Not that there is anything wrong with it and some of them are really fantastic, but they are really not the same.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Peter
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby Peter » 04 Aug 2012 10:04

I still dont understand, I am lucid because I am aware or I am not lucid. The non lucid have the same clarity of daily life and I dont get the dreams about lucid dreaming at all
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 04 Aug 2012 16:46

Dreams about lucid dreams really don't have conscious waking life awareness, they are just dreams about the subject. They come from the desire to be lucid. Sometimes they are pretty good fakes, but if you compare them to the real thing, you know the difference. Some are much more obvious than others. I had one again last night. The only thing I remember was doing RCs and how the results kept changing randomly. There was no lucidity at all, it was easy to tell it was not a real LD.

For me the real LDs are exactly like waking life, touchable, 3D virtual reality world, but they also include waking reality awareness which is very separate from the dream and allows the ability to evaluate the surroundings during the dream while making conscious choices. My memories after I wake include memories of what choices I made and my evaluation of the dream which is like remembering a waking life experience. Regular dreams are only evaluated from memories of the dream after waking. Lucid dreams contain thoughts like "This is very interesting looking, I think I'll touch it and see how it feels or "How am I going to deal with this?" or "What should I say to this dream character? Am I sure that this is a dream? I'd like to wake up now." etc. The thoughts in real LDs involve conscious choices that produce separate memories. My dreams of lucid dreaming don't have these, they are very easy to remember in detail after waking. My memories of real LDs have 2 parts, 1. the memory of the dream. 2. the memory of being lucid. They are two very different kinds of memories. It's like the difference between a memory of watching something on a movie screen and a memory of actually doing it. The dreams about lucid dreaming only have one kind of memory and it fades much faster than the memory of being lucid. Hope that helps.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus

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Ryan
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby Ryan » 05 Aug 2012 01:44

lucidinthe sky wrote:For me the real LDs are exactly like waking life, touchable, 3D virtual reality world, but they also include waking reality awareness which is very separate from the dream and allows the ability to evaluate the surroundings during the dream while making conscious choices. My memories after I wake include memories of what choices I made and my evaluation of the dream which is like remembering a waking life experience.

That... is, fully and completely, an astral projection. :)

...or as I call it, a non-physical astral awareness experience, because an astral projection isn't something you "do", it's a state of mind you "are".
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Peter
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby Peter » 05 Aug 2012 05:06

No not really, I am still stuck. I am lucid in a dream as I know I am dreaming or I am not lucid because I dont know I am dreaming. How real is not a quantifier as my non lucid's are as real as daily life and as real as a lucid dream. I either WILD and there is not doubt that I am lucid, I get a spontaneous lucid dream when I just realize I am dreaming and I dont bother with reality checks as I am aware or I wonder if I am dreaming and so do a reality check. In doing a reality check you are lucid but looking for conformation of fact. I dont get this dreaming about lucid dreaming at all as it just confuses me.

I had a set of dreams last night and at one point I was on a ship and out fishing. The ship was state art and had innovations I have not seen on a modern vessel and I had a good look around this ship, had thoughts about the design compared to a modern vessel, had a drive and docked it with as much care and attention as I would in daily life - but I was not lucid and know this. It was a vivid dream as real as daily life and I was thinking and comparing but did not gain awareness. Is this what you call dreaming about lucid dreaming? for me it isn't its just another night and normal in its clarity
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

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lucidinthe sky
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Re: What about 'Dreams About Lucid Dreaming'?

Postby lucidinthe sky » 05 Aug 2012 06:13

Peter wrote:It was a vivid dream as real as daily life and I was thinking and comparing but did not gain awareness. Is this what you call dreaming about lucid dreaming? for me it isn't its just another night and normal in its clarity


No, that's not what I would call dreaming about lucid dreaming. A dream about lucid dreaming would have the elements of a lucid dream without awareness: You dream about going through the motions basically. You have reality checks, dream about being lucid, etc. but it's all just part of the dream, not conscious thoughts and choices. It's seems simple to me: You never gain awareness, you just dream about awareness. You can dream about any experience. Most of the time, it's easy to tell the difference. It's kind of frustrating and if I didn't have the real thing I might not know the difference.
Last edited by lucidinthe sky on 05 Aug 2012 16:46, edited 1 time in total.
Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? Morpheus


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