Jordan Peterson VS Cathy Newman

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HAGART
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Re: Jordan Peterson VS Cathy Newman

Postby HAGART » 20 Sep 2018 20:02

I think we all have a personal religion. A belief we conjure to fill in the blind spots of our reality as we think we know it. Some happen to form larger groups, but then they too are divided because nobody will ever agree. You can always split an opinion in two. Even in an organized religion, there will be disagreements, and even in your own self, we disagree and debate ourselves in our own minds at times.

Until scientific understanding proves reality to exist despite our beliefs, we use beliefs to fill in what we don't know, and keep feeling like there is a purpose to our existence. That is a very good reason to have beliefs. Without it, I'm afraid that the Fermi Paradox, the fact that we have not encountered any other intelligent life, may be because once a being becomes too logical, it doesn't fantasize, and then it realizes how futile existence is so it chooses to not exist anymore.

Belief in something not real is not a bad thing. It can be used as a tool to help ameliorate our suffering. That's the key root purpose of all religions. Early ones in our tribal days would answer the question of why lightning strikes, or why sometimes it rains and other times it doesn't, filling in the gaps of our understanding until scientific method explains it better. Then in larger societies, religion became less about explaining nature, but instead more about morals, law and order. Religion became government and that's a problem if you're a free thinking human being.

Forming a belief to satisfy your mind can be a useful tool to make us happier and get through this life. I think that's why so many still cling to religion as human nature even when not forced by a theocracy.

(I saw part of that link Summerlander sent with Matt Dillahunty, and found the full 1 hour 40 minute discussion they had, but didn't watch it yet)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Jordan Peterson VS Cathy Newman

Postby Summerlander » 21 Sep 2018 10:52

Jordan Peterson holds a pretty skew-whiff---and somewhat metaphysical---view about truth which does not resonate with me at all. To say that any belief system compatible with our survival must be true, and noxious ones false, is idiotic for someone with his educational background. As Sam Harris put it in the aftermath of their podcast exchange, 'Peterson's peculiar form of pragmatism, anchored to the lone value of survival, can't capture what we mean by "truth" (or even what most pragmatists mean by it).'

I really despise the idea that individuals hold their own truth. It's bollocks! There is only one truth, what is objectively real and independent of subjective interpretation. As soon as a debater says 'my truth' or 'It's true for me', I switch off. Reality is what it is and people are either wrong or right about it.

People don't have to pretend there is an invisible deity watching them in order to behave ethically. Morality does not come from God---it comes from us, it's a concept devised by the human mind, a set of rules based on our sense of empathy, compassion and fairness. We know morality helps us to coexist and survive, so it is no wonder that it got promoted in our evolution.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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