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Posted: 25 Mar 2014 02:44
by Summerlander
The men who hijacked the planes were Islamic men of faith with Al Qaida ties. Also, members of their families hailed them as heroes. The US government didn't have to plan any inside job when they know their enemies and what they are capable of.

Also, for an inside job of such magnitude, many people would have to be involved. To risky, too costly, and too scandalous if word got out that the US was involved in international calumniation and undignified invasion. Besides national interest, the war really was about taking out individuals that threaten, and continue to threaten, civilisation as a whole.

The United States of America is mankind's great experiment. It is supposed to be a land of freedom and opportunity. The First Ammendment is one that every American should live by. It has the potential to be the greatest nation on Earth and to inspire the rest of the world. It doesn't deserve to be destroyed. It needs fixing and needs to be cherished. We don't need prophecies of doom and economy meltdown. We need solutions and we need to be on the side of those who have our best interests at heart. ;-)

Unless, of course, you prefer the abhorrent Sharia law and the mosques who harbour and protect terrorists with burqas. Here in London, the MI6 let a few slip away just like that. The latest one that I heard of was Muhammad Muhammad. Need I also remind you of 7/7? And Lee Rigby? And what about that massacre against non-Muslims in Kenya by Al-Shabbab (linked to Al Qaida)?

We know what these people are like and what they are capable of. Their Jihadism is akin to the tyranny of Bolshevism with a totalitarian twist of an imagined divine authority that sanctions world domination at whatever the cost.

Like I said, why the trouble of an inside job. It sounds absurd. For the US, it is convenient that these people look bad before the entire world, and the enemy doesn't disappoint. But they are not just terrorists. They are terrorists with a religious trump. They claim God is on their side. You don't know prophet Muhammad's mother's name? You deserve to die. You're a non-believer? You deserve to die. This is what we are dealing with. This is what we face.

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Posted: 25 Mar 2014 04:49
HAGART wrote:9/11, Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbour....

I think you summed it up with that simple statement. Profit at any expense is the name of the game, and seems to have been that way long before we popped outta our mommies.

Summerlander, I am also aware of all the evidence presented for the case of 9/11 being a result of Al Qaida and extremist Muslims. But I guess I'm too skeptical to have a sound opinion of what happened on that day. In my defense, I'm just an average guy with some questions I have no answers to :D . But regardless of whether it was planned or let happened, it was piggy backed into a "war on terrorism," which is just as vague as the "war on drugs."
You are right that the US is supposed to be the land of the free with ample opportunity, but the American dream is just that (as George Carlin would exclaim), a dream...because you have to be asleep to believe it :) . The inequality gap between the wealthy and the poor has been growing exponentially, but obviously that isn't sustainable. SO, I am in agreeance that it needs fixing. But, again, I have optimism in the global outcome of humanity. As a collective, we have the say in where we go, what we do, how things are.

Also, I think we can all agree that every religion, philosophy, ideology, spiritual belief, etc etc. has its extremists. Think of all the "Arabs" (or any brown person really) that were murdered, assaulted, harassed, or otherwise acted against once 9/11 happened and the war on terror commenced (In US, I don't know about Canada or the UK.) A religion is not inherently violent, the same way money is not evil, people decide what they do, decide what they believe. People make their choices. Not advocating that Islam isn't a violent religion, but not every Muslim wants to kill others. The average Joe just wants to live life in peace with family and friends. I think this can be said as a general statement for most religions or spiritual beliefs.


Posted: 25 Mar 2014 05:11
Just because we question it doesn't mean we support Jihad.
Questioning government should be considered patriotic, not shameful.

I'm Canadian, sitting in the bleachers, watching, but it bothers me. I don't know why others don't wake up.....

Here's some things to think about:
1. No nation attacked America that day. It might as well have been the Hell's Angels. It was a criminal act by thugs. (Or so the puppets told me, but even if it were true, the police should be involved, not the military).

2. Do you find it odd, that after a collision, after an inferno, after a building collapsed to rubble, that the black box, one of the most indestructible inventions known to mankind, was supposedly not found, but miraculously a paper passport of the hijacker was? Sounds too implausible to be true.

3. And of course, why did building 7 collapse, controlled-demolition-style, out of the blue, a few hours later when nothing hit it?

(There's more, but these deal with physics, probability, and logic. I don't speculate why or how, that's all up to imagination. I just like to look at the facts, and I tell you, THEY DON'T ADD UP!)


Posted: 25 Mar 2014 05:36
HAGART wrote:1. No nation attacked America that day. It might as well have been the Hell's Angels. It was a criminal act by thugs. (Or so the puppets told me, but even if it were true, the police should be involved, not the military).

Wow, I never once considered it in those terms.

It's something to ponder, who is the real terrorist in all this... The government(s) (US and allies) that has killed more than 120k innocents, which outnumbers the "terrorists" or soldiers over the past decade (appx. 50k) , or the one time attack that claimed 2900 lives. OR both? *Edit: These are figures for Iraq only, not Afghanistan, Africa, or any other subsequent conflicts*

The official story is dubious at best, for its lacking of conclusive evidence. Not to mention the extremely suspicious "coincidences," such as building 7.

Although this is still somewhat on subject, to tie it in with the Illuminati... it is said that the Illuminati (enlightened ones, banksters, bilderberg group, the global elite, or whichever label) are setting the stage to usher in a New World Order, or one world government. Would this necessarily be a bad thing if it turns out to be true? Would these costs of war, suffering, and needless death be justified by the outcome (if the outcome turned out to be truly better for mankind and the environment, and not slavery)? Or could it be true that we really are seen as property by the people who believe they own the planet? (Don't know if anyone actually thinks that, but I guess it can be argued in capitalistic terms that anything can be bought, owned, and sold)

*Edited for spelling/grammar*


Posted: 25 Mar 2014 06:19
A little off-topic on the off-topic already....

I saw a funny documentary on You Tube today from North Korea talking about how the West uses propaganda. (Ironic hilarity aside), it was actually spot on.

(Not me, but I see it here). We are slaves to television and consumerism, seeing things on TV, then wanting them, and buying them, even though we don't need them. And there is this rampant Celebrity Worship that is out of hand. You don't have to be talented; you just have to be on TV!

But what made me laugh was when they said, (and I love the wording) "this lady who goes by the name of Madonna goes shopping for children in other countries to gain sympathy when she could buy a homeless American".

(They also mentioned 9/11 and how the Bushes actually go back further than just the two we know of and they've been in power for a while, and Bush JR. said he went to war in Iraq because it was the will of GOD!) Just Google it.

Here's one example just to prove it:

I like to vent sometimes, and I tell ya, this is far better than reading trolls on You Tube. We have a better conversation here. I love George Carlin, and it's alright to be angry and offensive, but I also like to put a comedic spin on it. But deep down, I am irked. Damn irked. If I could express how irked I am I would say it. BUt I just like to say the word, irked.... :lol:


Posted: 25 Mar 2014 12:01
by Summerlander
I agree that "war on terrorism" was a stupid gimmicky disphemism. But they couldn't exactly say war on Islam...

I will disagree with you on religion though. It is immoral as well as amoral. The so-called extremists follow Islam to the letter (whatever faction they belong to). jihad and martyrdom are real concepts in their scripture. Such "extremists" would argue that the Muslims who cherrypick the Koran and befriend the West, the nonbelievers, are not real Muslims. The Koran explicitly forbids you to befriend nonbelievers.

Religious IS inherently poisonous, unjust, unreasonable, degrading and evil. Islam is the worst! And the wishy-washy apologists for such a dangerous and despicable ideology are not helping the case for thy make sure that the fertile ground for dangerous nonsense remains, which is then subsequently exploited by the zealots, the corrupt, and the grossly ignorant.

Even the Bible with its genocide, rape, torture, slavery, murder, and pseudoscience is a danger. (Not to mention the love for eschatology.) I'd agree with you about religion being good if its books and so-called revelation were good and humanistic. But, overall, they are not. Its tenets and instructions are clear and nobody in their right mind can agree or even sympathise with them.

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Posted: 26 Mar 2014 07:27
Summerlander wrote:I will disagree with you on religion though. It is immoral as well as amoral.

I guess technically all religions are moral, depending on what you are comparing it to, since moral/immoral are subjective human-made terms :D .

I did more research into the founding of Islam because of this discussion, and I found overwhelmingly the same consensus as you, except for a few here and there that argued the case that it isn't necessarily any more violent than any other religion (although in recent years it hasn't received much positive publicity.) I can see how a religion forged in war can harbor violent tendencies, but I am still on the side that it isn't the religion that is inherently violent, the actions of the individual are. Even sharia law isn't violent in that sense. Those are all human social constructions that people choose to adhere to. In other words, the human is a particularly peculiar creature in that an individual has the capacity for the greatest evils, yet the greatest goods as well.

HAGART wrote:"this lady who goes by the name of Madonna goes shopping for children in other countries to gain sympathy when she could buy a homeless American"
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I watched this documentary a couple of months ago! Great watch hahaha!


Posted: 26 Mar 2014 15:13
by Summerlander
Sharia law is a human construction. Islam and other religions are human constructions. Religion is a bad ideology that people would do well in giving up as it can make many good people behave badly. And those who behave because of their religion are not being as noble as they could be: the will to do good should come from their hearts, not because some purportedly sacred book says so whilst threatening with an afterlife hell and bribing with a hedonistic heaven.

Islam tells us we are no good. It says we are servants of God. It opposes other worldviews. It defies science. It says, "stop looking for answers about the universe and how it came about, trust that Allah is the answer..."

Islam opposes human rights, particularly those of women. Islam condones rape, torture, murder, and, huh, suicide-homicide in the name of God. This isn't just how some choose to interpret scripture. This is explicitly mentioned in the Koran and hadith, which can't really be taken any other way but literally.

Even the argument that the barbarisms in Islamic scripture were applicable then but not now isn't a cogent one. Remember: the koran, according to them, is the infallible, unalterable, and immutable word of God. Islam isn't just a religion. It is the ultimate revelation. It is, as a social construct and law, absolute, totalitarian, and, in that respect, a "solution" very much akin to Bolshevism.

The pious men who brought down the WTC weren't necessarily evil, let alone terrorists in the sense that the media portrayed them. They believed they were doing the right thing. They believed they were men of God doing God's work To them, it was a duty of the utmost importance. They were wrong and never knew it. Apparent God had told them to slay the infidel. The same in London with the 7/7. The same applies when Lee Rigby was murdered and his killers chanted, "God is great," and even kissed the Koran in court. The schisms in Islam also makes the be at war with one another. The Sunnis, the Shiites...

The ideology is bad. The ideology defines evil under the guise of good. It is not just bad people using this ideology to get advantage. The average Joe is also being brainwashed and misusing it. I say misusing in the latter case because it ought to be taught like a flawed culture, a tradition that does not belong in modern society, like something shamefully part of our history, like the Incan sacrifices. Not to be taught as a flawless truism.

In London, particularly Southall where I work, I see young Muslim men coming out of Mosques and expressing their hatred for Jews, the white infidels who are in cahoots with zionists, how they can't wait for the Day of Judgement, how teenage white girls are whores deserving of rape for wearing skirts, and how glad they are that one of their mosques protected "terrorists" like Muhammad Muhammad by providing them with burqas that would help them escape. What is in store for the next generation when this kind of multiculturalism insidiously threatens community and unity?

Finally, a challenge posed by Christopher Hitchens, I paraphrase: Name me a moral action performed by a believer that couldn't be performed by a non-believer.

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Posted: 26 Mar 2014 15:36
by Summerlander
One more thing. Islam's bad publicity isn't recent. It goes bad for centuries. We only have to go as far as shortly after the American Indepence, back to the days of piracy in the Mediterranean Sea, when the Ottoman Empire was rife.

Muslims plundered European ships and killed and enslaved many. Americans assumed it was revenge for the Crusades. But then, the Muslim pirates began to attack American ships. America had never taken part in the Crusades and had no quarrel with them.

When Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met with the Ambassador of Tripoli in London, this is the answer they got (paraphrasing): "We have the right to enslave or kill you according to God's revelation. It says in the Koran that we have authority over other nations because you are all infidels. Any Muslim who dies in combat will also bypass judgement and reach the highest heavens."

It is funny that today, hate-preachers like Anjem Chowdery intimate that Americans started it all when they brainwash youngsters. Rather than learning legitimate history at schools or libraries, they receive a convenient brand of psedo-history.

Who started the war? Religion. For what cause? World domination through Jihad as prophesied in their holy scripture. It is the love of doing god's will and the reward. Never mind humanism. Never mind compassion for our fellow human beings.

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Posted: 26 Mar 2014 23:13
by taniaaust1
What do you all think missing malaysian plane Flight 370? When that first went missing I actually wondered if it could be some plot to start another war somewhere.. evidence could be planted so to get wrong groups blamed.

(Im now thou thinking that its not going to be found for quite a while so dont think what I orginally was wondering about is the case. My current theory on it is that it was a hyjacking gone wrong. I suspect they were after some of the important people on board rather then the actual plane itself).

It would be easy for a war to be started anywhere. (the missing plane thou is interesting seeing a large group of people on that plane.. I think it was over 20 people on board it... were very high up in a US company in which was providing technology to the US miltary..something new to do with radar). America seemed very quiet over that missing plane.. to quiet.. so I wasnt surprised to find out that there was those very important people aboard with connection to special technology

America is the most aggressive country in the world if we look at its role in wars. Its almost in every war (we can expect the negative side of the Illuminati headquarters to be based there).