Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 10 Nov 2014 12:53

That is why it annoys me when some say, "People's opinions are totally static and they can never be persuaded and debate is pointless." Some people think that people don't change their minds about the world, when actually the case is that people don't VISIBLY change their minds. They do it in privacy, because it's undeniably shameful to admit you were wrong.
(Cool about that bombing.)

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Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 10 Nov 2014 17:52

Me and deschainXIX are prime examples that people can change their minds. We may not have advertised the new paradigm straight away, we may even have lingered in our recognised ignorance in order to preserve our egos - before finally conceding. But we changed. And I'd like to think that we have grown sufficiently to admit immediately when we recognise that we are wrong. The search for knowledge and civilised discourse encourages individuals to be humble...humility is a sign of erudition: it is the updated version of what Socrates meant by the axiom, "One thing I know is that I know nothing."

On a different note, yeah, so much for Caliph Ibrahim, leader of all Muslims and a direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad. Where was Allah, dare I ask, to protect them from the infidels? :-D

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 10 Nov 2014 18:44

@nesgirl
I don't know your family, but I feel compelled to believe that if you scientifically and logically reasoned with them and provided them lucid dreaming literature to investigate for themselves, they would at least cease their accusations of delusion or lying.

@Summerlander
Their incessant answer to any criticism of God's lack of involvement in the world is always, "God works in mysterious ways." That's usually where the discussion ends for me, anyway. It's a dead-end argument. :lol:

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Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 10 Nov 2014 20:28

Actually both lucid dreaming and multimedia design indeed take place in the "real world." Perhaps you should point that out to them by explaining the psychological realm of knowledge that proves it. They sound far too concerned with superficiality in all honesty, limited to the bounds of their own experience as fed to them by their personal perception. I've had people act remarkably stupid and totally misunderstanding of what lucid dreaming is, but once I took the time to explain to them and give them a more enlightened understanding, most of them ceded the fact that it is a rational, secular phenomenon. In many ways lucid dreaming is much like meditation--viewed by many (morons) to be a quasi-spiritual experience like prayer or speaking in tongues, when in fact it is totally natural and scientific.

And, yes, I read your story before you edited it out. I'm not certain I see your point ... but interesting story nonetheless I suppose.

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Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 10 Nov 2014 23:22

nesgirl wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bTFCYcjv0w
Explaining it to some people is like SpongeBob explaining it to Patrick I am afraid. "Shoot! That was my last quarter!" At the end, "Does anyone have a quarter?"


:lol: I loved that show when I was a kid.

nesgirl wrote:Well it'd probably be even more farfetched if I included that WILD I had in there. I honestly don't see anything wrong with the WILD itself. While it did actually coincide with some events making it seem suspicious, things like that happen at times. I have had probability Lucid Dreams in the past. Although I told you about one of my probability Lucid Dreams before when it happened during my EEG and you really criticized me for it. I cannot help when I have a probability Lucid Dream, as probability is caused by the laws of math, not by me, and if I have one, it isn't my fault. If you are going to get mad at someone for my lousy luck, blame the functions of math in this universe.


Sorry, could you aid me in defining a "probability lucid dream"? Also, an EEG is not an operation but a continuous measurement of cephalic neural activity. You cannot have something happen to you "during an EEG." Perhaps what you mean is, while under operation, you underwent a lucid dream while the EEG measured you as unconscious. Which is indeed impossible. Equally is it impossible for you to have known the measurement of your electroencephalographic activity whilst being in a lucid dream--or as Summerlander puts it, the phase state. I do not see how this escapes your mind's threshold for understanding.
Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 11 Nov 2014 15:45

Umm ... I'm not sure if you know this, but I have never attacked anyone for posting anything, much less sharing a lucid dream on the forum. Why would I? Can you link me an example where you think I've made people uncomfortable sharing their lucid dreams? Even one link?

Also--I don't care about your operation experience. I'm not going to "accuse you of lying" or anything like that. I did however criticize it on another thread because, if memory serves, we were discussing the existence of consciousness within unconsciousness (IE death), and you provided that story as evidence for the spirit. Of course I'm going to criticize that! How can you get angry with me for criticizing that, when we were having a debate about that very thing?!

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Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 11 Nov 2014 16:58

There is a new Sam Harris video where he talks about self-transcendence, nesgirl. He perfectly illustrates how the self is an illusion, just another sense of content of consciousness, and how, when you look for it in meditation, it falls apart. You really want to look at that...

I also liked the fact that he mentioned how numinous experiences, in the context of ideology, could incentivise individuals to do things others wouldn't. Like some people who travel to Syria and Iraq to fight for ISIS and commit suicide-homicide.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 11 Nov 2014 19:08

You can also abandon your sense of self simply by thinking and realizing through simple causal philosophy that the self is nothing. It's a pretty easy concept to understand. What's hard is actually accepting it and acting upon it--those things are achieved through the meditation.

Yeah. People interpret these pseudo-spiritual experiences differently, and this fact itself proves that they are not at all spiritual. People are always telling me that they had a wonderful fantastic dream via which God was trying to communicate with them. It's mind-bogglingly stupid. Despite all the scientific flaws with that statement, I always feel like pointing out, "Hey, maybe it was Allah trying to communicate with you, not the Christian God."

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Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 11 Nov 2014 20:19

And have you heard the ridiculous theological reasoning that God must exist because He exists as a concept in our minds? Lol! To which people like Richard Dawkins retorted: "What about dragons?" :-D

I'm more concerned about real things in the world than silly arguments about the metaphysical existence of imaginary friends (or dictators).:-)

Iran has just signed a deal with Russia for two new nuclear reactors. Meanwhile, Putin and a gullible Obama exchange views about Syria and Iraq. I wonder if the Russian president cared to mention the reasons behind intimidating peripheral nations with airforce and why he's already downed a few aircraft carrying innocent civillians. It is a cold war and yet people seem to think that two opposing presidents talking for 20 minutes somehow constitutes progress of some sort. Germany is shitting itself about placing sanctions against the Russian Federation, and given the latter's aggression, so they should. There is no reasoning with such psychopath.

It's also the tenth anniversary of the death of the infamous Yasser Arafat. A Palestinian demonstrator has already been shot dead by Israeli forces in Hebron, West Bank, amid tensions over Jerusalem's holy site. The Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas accused Israel of trying to provoke a religious war. (Can you believe that in this day and age people fight over where to pray and what ideas should be persued without evidence or reason?)

Mahmoud Abbas also blamed Hamas for carrying out attacks in Gaza and killing officials loyal to Qatar - destroying Palestinian unity in the process.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 12 Nov 2014 01:12

Perhaps. Impossible to know, I guess. :)

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Well said.


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