Lucid Dreaming and Religion

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 15 Jan 2018 10:17

Religion isn't just for weak minds. It strives to keep all minds weak for submission and exploitation. Even those minds with the potential courage of free thought. It leaves everyone vulnerable. It takes your right to defend yourself. You are deemed unworthy and in need of salvation. It makes you think life is some kind of test. Religion, at its worst, destroys lives every day. :geek:

Science is the best method we have with which to study reality. It is about inquiry, not dogmas and belief. Scientists are often the humblest people you will meet as they are honest enough to say, about certain characteristics of reality, 'We don't know, we don't have an answer yet, but we are working towards a solution using experimentation and observation.' You will find that pious zealots and spiritualists are quite the opposite as they say, 'We know this to be the case, we are certain of this, our instinct is strong and tells us that this is real...' and go on attempting, very badly and clumsily, to make scientific discovery fit their beloved worldviews. It is no different to the religious zealot changing his exegesis in order to make it compatible with the newfound knowledge that science has provided, so, he might say, 'I know the good book says the earth does not move and is the centre of the universe but it is not to be taken literally, you see...'

This is very suspect, and, if not deliberately knavish, it is a statement that might reinforce delusion out of desperation. The comfortable 'belief' is under threat. Deepak will not recant his position like a scientist would. Scientists follow evidence while men like Deepak prefer to hold on to fantasies and delusions. Deepak is not a quantum physicist, yet he appears to claim to know more about that level of reality than the expert, and attempts to convince the layman to join him with his garbled mumbo-jumbo that centres around metaphor. Religion in general is the same. There is nothing in the Bible about DNA, genes, viruses and germs that can make people ill. Instead, you find the ramblings of superstitious Iron Age peasants. Even the so-called moral values in the Bible are inferior compared to what today's secular humanism can propose. The Bible is hardly practical and you will find more use in a book with a few cooking recipes.

Nothing in the brain has been identified as the essence of consciousness. For all we know, it is a strong illusion like the wetness of water (nothing about water molecules, let alone its atoms, is 'wet'). Note that illusion does not equate with non-existent. It just means that it is not what it seems. I'd also like to point out that, when someone makes tall claims in scientific circles, the onus is on them to prove what they claim---not the other way around! The same principle applies in our courts: If you say that princess Diana was assassinated by prince Philip, the onus is on you to supply evidence to the jury to back up your claim. You cannot just make the claim without any evidence and tell the opposition, 'Disprove what I've just said.' This would not make sense and it could not be done in the first place. Even if Philip provided an alibi, it could be surmised that he conspired with others and put hitmen to it. If he sworn by the Bible or provided an affidavit, he could be accused of lying. You see how speculation has no power and should not be given any power when establishing facts? On science and spirituality... The first deals with facts and tries to uncover the truth about reality. The second is older and is deeply ingrained in our being. Its source is fear. We can trace it back to the times when our ancestors knew squat and were afraid of the future. In those times, we thought that invisible agents were at work. What we could not explain needed a quick explanation so we came up with gods, demons, and all sorts of superstitions. It was comforting to live under the delusion that we knew what was causing the unexplained and 'knew' what to do when we took the solar eclipse to be a divine sign and sacrificed animals and human life in order to appease wrathful gods. Such actions gave us hope and then we moved on to faith. And after praying, when things didn't go as planned, we assigned mystery to our maker's mind. He is beyond our understanding therefore there must be a good reason for the misery that has befallen us... (what a terrible way to live!)

Religion was even better as it provided control and gave us a sense of purpose (not to mention the fancy idea that the creator had us in mind when He created everything---a highly egocentric proposal). Religion was our first attempt at everything. It was our early 'philosophy' and our early 'science'. But now it's dying as real science continues to uncover material that discredits fantasy and provides what is actually practical for our survival. Thus, astronomy replaces astrology, chemistry replaces alchemy, and physics shows us that a universe could in fact have arisen without the need of a supernatural creator. Hence, religion, like the moth's biological compass, becomes a misfiring by-product of an otherwise useful thing.

I will not mention spirituality, because, (and note the words I use) one can still be spiritual without subscribing to spiritualism (which to me is a form of religion), but, the reason why science and religion don't get along is due to the fact that they are complete opposites. One works for reason and truth. The other does not.

Religion is becoming an increasingly dangerous concept because it stultifies our intellectual growth. Religion often alludes that the search for knowledge is a thing of the devil. Religion persuades you to give up the quest for knowledge and to accept its tenets, calling them the 'unquestionable truth', to have faith and accept its teachings without evidence. Religion also fancies some eschatological ideas that attracts certain individuals to commit atrocities in the belief that they are doing God's work. Religion makes good people be unreasonable and act bad. Religion degrades the human spirit by treating it like a child that can't tell right from wrong. Religion hijacks our nobility by telling us to behave or else ... (no heaven, hell for sure). Religion can even convince some that the victims of some catastrophe somehow deserved it. It defies science, reason and morality.

So shame on people like Deepak Chopra, John Hagelin, Duncan MacDougall, Rupert Sheldrake, Amit Goswami, Thomas Campbell (cult leader!) and many other pseudoscientific crackpots out there... :D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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RedKryptonite
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016 02:26

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby RedKryptonite » 15 Jan 2018 16:37

Summerlander wrote:Religion isn't just for weak minds. It strives to keep all minds weak for submission and exploitation. Even those minds with the potential courage of free thought. It leaves everyone vulnerable. It takes your right to defend yourself. You are deemed unworthy and in need of salvation. It makes you think life is some kind of test. Religion, at its worst, destroys lives every day. :geek:

So true,nothing more I can add. Other than this lovely documentary. Witness the destructive capability of the most powerful mental disease on this planet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEOX8aT_uSQ

And to think,all this suffering could have been avoided with something as simple as the use of birth control/contraceptives...but no,the catholic church is against it. :roll:

The average Filipino is a fucking sheep,but I suppose that isn't really their fault when they are brainwashed by their parents at an early age to believe in this abomination called christianity/catholicism. I'm just one of the lucky few who were able to see through the deception.

The majority of religious people out there will have to experience a very traumatic event,an event so traumatic that it causes them to question their existence and beliefs,for them to have any hope of finally seeing through the BS. You and I experienced this at a young age(you for for witnessing the disgusting cruelty of these "religious children",and me for being the victim of these monsters.). and to think,had you and I never had lived differently,we may very well have ended up just like those sheep. I guess sometimes pain can be a good thing.

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 16 Jan 2018 10:26

Yes. The indoctrination of hogwash. No appeal against its tenets and no debate about ethics because the Creator says the rules are final. Disgustingly pro-life and pronatalist.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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LoneDreamer
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Joined: 30 Jul 2017 07:41

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 08 Feb 2018 15:48

Not to be that guy, but I am just saying, didn't all progressive civilizations have religion and culture. Even in religious civilization there was a separate place for studying nature and science (kind of). So, can't religion coexist with the current society to some extent? Also, I don't think atheism can withstand repeated onslaught by organised and dogmatic alpha religions such as islam. It seems way too strong to resist unless opposed with the same dogma. Most people will rather follow their own mind and prejudices than act on what's true. Thus follow collective belief and do actions based on it thus i feel that religion will exist one way or another. Ones who can see through all the illusion of belief can lead the masses to progress or they can use the mobs collective thinking to his own benefit. There are many examples for both cases in history. I feel that this mob mentality is prevalent in humans and will always be present. This is what I think. 8-) What is your opinion?

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LoneDreamer
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 08 Feb 2018 16:03

RedKryptonite wrote: What started me on the path to questioning my religion is my traumatic childhood experience with bullies. I was never what you'd call a "normal kid." I was socially awkward,fat,mentally unstable,introverted and a total computer/video game geek.

That seems to sums up most of my teenage years. Though I must say I didn't have experience as harsh as yours, I was not always bullied but either way, I always felt left out.
Although I must say I didn't have any bad experience regarding religion, but yes I also was pretty anti god and always blamed god for my bad luck. I have many times insulted god as well. :lol: But I must say compared what you guys have said I must say religious folks around me are pretty great people. I don't know too much about Indian Christians but I feel that they are more dogmatic than the Hindus. Also, why are people around so concerned about you being atheists? People around would either make fun of me or think of me as some modern hippie or think I am trying to look cool(this is true in some cases though), other than that no one cares about it.

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RedKryptonite
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Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby RedKryptonite » 09 Feb 2018 08:30

LoneDreamer wrote:why are people around so concerned about you being atheists? People around would either make fun of me or think of me as some modern hippie or think I am trying to look cool(this is true in some cases though), other than that no one cares about it.

This video by DarkMatter2525 should sufficiently answer your question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU
(don't worry,its not some typical boring video of a guy talking/ranting in front of a screen. its an short but entertaining animated video.)

The guy has many other animated videos as well,3 of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r6oXukz_Cc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODetOE6cbbc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMaK6k4oZ20

:lol: ah...such classics.

Anyway,nice to see you back. :D

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Summerlander
Posts: 4210
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 11 Feb 2018 05:10

Love Darkmatter. The guy is awesome! 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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RedKryptonite
Posts: 253
Joined: 13 Oct 2016 02:26

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby RedKryptonite » 12 Feb 2018 16:37

Summerlander wrote:Love Darkmatter. The guy is awesome! 8-)

Indeed. He's right up there with Qualiasoup and Theramintrees when it comes to making great animations. (well,their purposes are different. those 2 focus more on intellectual debate while Darkmatter focuses on entertainment while delivering a message. Not to say that those 2 haven't made wonderful stories of their own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAIpRRZvnJg )

Oh yeah,I have a gift for you. As an antinatalist,it will most definitely resonate with you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLLi-wLdP10

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LoneDreamer
Posts: 120
Joined: 30 Jul 2017 07:41

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby LoneDreamer » 13 Feb 2018 11:26

RedKryptonite wrote:
LoneDreamer wrote:why are people around so concerned about you being atheists? People around would either make fun of me or think of me as some modern hippie or think I am trying to look cool(this is true in some cases though), other than that no one cares about it.

This video by DarkMatter2525 should sufficiently answer your question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8ZMMuu7MU
(don't worry,its not some typical boring video of a guy talking/ranting in front of a screen. its an short but entertaining animated video.)

The guy has many other animated videos as well,3 of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r6oXukz_Cc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODetOE6cbbc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMaK6k4oZ20

:lol: ah...such classics.

Anyway,nice to see you back. :D

Actually I am a sub of darkmatter's channel. I must say he's awesome. Thanks for the video.

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Summerlander
Posts: 4210
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Lucid Dreaming and Religion

Postby Summerlander » 16 Feb 2018 00:30

How do you feel about his atheism?
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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