Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

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Enra Traz
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Re: Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

Postby Enra Traz » 04 Jul 2016 20:39

The other day, I formally introduced to my former neighbour Samantha's boyfriend. My neighbour Helen finds the bloke's machismo, narcissism and general testosterone-driven mannerisms obnoxious. I facetiously---and perhaps stupidly---remarked that Stuart is a 'proper man', to which she retorted, 'No! That's not a proper man! I'm sick of all that macho bullshit!' Perhaps there is some truth in what you're saying, Dane! :mrgreen:

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Summerlander
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Re: Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

Postby Summerlander » 04 Jul 2016 21:03

I think most people can more or less agree on what 'camp' means, though. (Bearing in mind that both heterosexual and homosexual men can either possess or lack this quality.) :-D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Pilgrim
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Re: Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

Postby Pilgrim » 08 Jul 2016 00:43

When I was a teenager in the 1980s, I experienced a form of bullying by someone who began a rumor that I was gay. It had no basis in truth. But, it was rampantly whispered and spread. I was very athletically capable, so I did not get physical bullying by the time I was 16. But, it was a powerful form of emotional bullying, which was highly effective in hurting me.

I therefore understand what it is like to endure such homophobia. In reality, those who eagerly spread such rumor had no true and loving concern to help me. It was just plain juicy slander.

I found myself laughing in recent years, as I began to see opinions change. It has become cool for guys to display exaggerated femininity, and for observers to be exceedingly supportive. Were I to be among those now who thought I was gay, would I get some grand praise?

Therefore, I see this subject not really a matter of homophobia, in many cases. People simply like to function in the safety of herds, and bully/exclude others. Whoever is slightly different from the herd will get bullied.

Now, from my own perspective, particular inclinations by birth do not justify behaviors. One can just as easily say that being inclined toward heterosexuality is sin. Sinful acts are not necessary, in that most people do not die without sex. Adultery and fornication are described as wrong in the Bible, as are homosexual acts. A genuine desire to love and help people is what is typically missing among those who pass harsh judgment, pretending holier than thou.

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Summerlander
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Re: Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

Postby Summerlander » 08 Jul 2016 20:19

Pilgrim wrote:Therefore, I see this subject not really a matter of homophobia, in many cases. People simply like to function in the safety of herds, and bully/exclude others. Whoever is slightly different from the herd will get bullied.


I agree with that. It takes guts to be different, and if you're going to do that, charisma goes a long way. You know what I think? Christopher Hitchens matters. His Letters to a Young Contrarian should become a textbook in all schools. It should be part of the curriculum.

Pilgrim wrote:A genuine desire to love and help people is what is typically missing among those who pass harsh judgment, pretending holier than thou.


Well said.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

Postby deschainXIX » 10 Jul 2016 02:33

I think one aspect of this issue we haven’t fleshed out is that, while certainly there are biological factors that contribute to homosexuality, it doesn’t necessarily follow that every homosexual is a product of biological factors. Someone may simply have an extraordinarily open mind, a willingness to partake in “the socially obscene,” for example. Nitimur in vetitum, as it were. Or someone may have had something happen to them as a child, something Freudian that influences their taste.

At the end of the day, outside of a purely clinical or scientific interest, it doesn’t matter at all, and it’s probably a variety of factors in most people, just like any other personality trait.

Gender dimorphism, though, is an actual biological concept. No way of getting around it. In a sexual species, there are males and females with distinctive anatomical and hormonal traits that make them so. But, again, this does not necessitate that every individual of the species will conform to the exact identities that their respective genders suggest. This is the more the case when it comes to humans, who are highly influenced by factors other than the genetic.

I personally can’t stand macho men, though. Stuart sounds insufferable! :lol: To be fair, though, I also don’t care for “girly girls.” I like it when people defy their gender norms. But that’s just personal taste.
Well said.

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Dane
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Re: Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

Postby Dane » 11 Jul 2016 09:55

deschainXIX wrote: like it when people defy their gender norms. But that’s just personal taste.


I support that. 8-)
I returned from the abyss, as a married man. :D

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Summerlander
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Re: Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

Postby Summerlander » 11 Jul 2016 21:24

deschainXIX wrote:I think one aspect of this issue we haven’t fleshed out is that, while certainly there are biological factors that contribute to homosexuality, it doesn’t necessarily follow that every homosexual is a product of biological factors. Someone may simply have an extraordinarily open mind, a willingness to partake in “the socially obscene,” for example. Nitimur in vetitum, as it were. Or someone may have had something happen to them as a child, something Freudian that influences their taste.


I absolutely agree with that. It is possible for people to suddenly find themselves sexually attracted to shoes (only) because their upbringing involved the inculcation that coition is obscene---or that the opposite gender is repulsive---and they happened to be focusing on shoes during those embarrassing times when their repressive parents spoke about the subject with such conviction. Needless to say, sexual attraction for shoes alone is a weird outlet. I was also thinking that it's not far-fetched to think that homosexuality can, sometimes, be triggered in otherwise heterosexual people along similar lines. The fact remains, however, that it's still not a choice, but rather, either something that people are naturally inclined to follow from birth or later due to certain experiences or lack thereof if they come to hold an open-minded philosophy on life ...

Which brings me to the Nietzschean nitimur in vetitum semper cupimusque negata you've mentioned! As a parent, I try to remind myself of such dictum because my own experience attests to it regarding drug use and atheism. My mother forbade me from experimenting with drugs and warned me against renouncing God (although she eventually reconciled with my atheism). Needless to say, I did exactly the opposite of what she intended.

deschainXIX wrote:I personally can’t stand macho men, though. Stuart sounds insufferable! :lol: To be fair, though, I also don’t care for “girly girls.” I like it when people defy their gender norms. But that’s just personal taste.


Me and you share the same personal taste then. 8-)

Dane wrote:
deschainXIX wrote: like it when people defy their gender norms. But that’s just personal taste.


I support that. 8-)


Ditto. Well said. :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Homosexuality: Genetic or a personal preference?

Postby Summerlander » 15 Jul 2016 13:36

American geneticist Dean Hamer published a book with Peter Copeland called Living with our Genes. He has researched genetic markers that correlate with personality differences and found that people with more copies of the D4DR gene (associated with dopamine in the brain) on chromosome 11, tended to necessitate a more adventurous approach to life that in order to obtain the same dopamine 'buzz' that short-gened (less D4DR copies) people get from simple things.

Hamer also provided an example of novelty-seeking that pertains to this topic. Heterosexual men with long D4DR genes are six times more likely to have slept with another man than those with the short genes. Among homosexual men, long genes are five times more likely to sleep with women than short genes. In both groups, the long-gened people had more sexual partners than the short-gened people.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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