You know,I only PM'ed this to Summerlander and Lucide. but after thinking about it,I've decided to finally post my saved conversation here about the last fight I ever got into in high school. I don't see any harm that could come from it after all,especially since I really only talked about the physical altercation itself rather than go into detail with the story. Anyway,here goes. Let me know your thoughts.
Expert: Marc MacYoung
Subject: Adrenaline,red eyes,and grappling.
Date Asked: 2015-10-24 09:06:24
Date Answered: 2015-10-24 20:09:52
): I actually asked this question to you on a facebook PM a few months ago,but now I realize this was the more appropriate place to ask and these questions would be helpful to others when asked publicly.
The fight I mentioned before was my 2nd to the last fight,this fight was the last fight I had that came a year after
In high school,I got into it with the baddest/most feared bully. I hate to admit it but I was terrified of the guy. However,after my last fight,I started doing a lot of research about fighting and martial arts. In the past,I had a dismissive attitude towards most traditional martial arts because every taekwondo and karate practitioner I have ever met in my life couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Through research,I had learned about MMA and grappling. I watched the first UFC events and watched Royce Gracie defeat bigger strikers. I also watched the "Gracie in Action" videos(BJJ propaganda videos)and needless to say,I ate it all up. When a striker is forced on his back,he loses the ability to effectively generate force. I had it as a plan that if I ever had to fight any of the big bads in school,I would grapple them to the ground.
And it happened,lets call this guy John. I didn't want to fight but he was such a bullying asshole that my hand was forced. I had to choose between fighting him or losing face in front of the entire school. The latter was not an option for me. Anyways,we were already yelling at each other but John was so overconfident that he didn't even stand up from his seat while I was in his face. This gave me the opening to do a "Chair tackle/Takedown" where you literally dive/pounce on a seated opponent. Here's a video that best depicts what I did:
Let me tell you,I experienced the most powerful adrenaline rush of my life the moment I jumped at him. Time went in slow motion,I got tunnel vision,auditory exclusion(my teacher was yelling at me to stop when everyone came to break the fight up,I couldn't hear him at all),I didn't feel any pain from the impact...In fact,I don't think I even remember feeling an impact from the takedown. And my eyes went red(When the fight was over,my friends told me about it. I had such a scary face/look) and I think I was even having flashbacks/mind running through memories during the fight.
I took John to the ground because I felt that was my only chance to win,or at least gain a secondary victory where even if I lose,I made him suffer. I had no training at the time and I don't think I could have beaten him at all in a head on brawl. not only because he was a more experienced brawler but because the adrenaline I felt was so strong that I probably would have flailed and threw ineffective punches. He was also in better shape than I was(I weigh 240 lbs and fat,he was around 150-160 lbs give or take)
Anyway,once I got him to the ground with me landing into the mounted position,I don't remember feeling any resistance from him. I don't know if its because he froze or the takedown itself KO'ed him right then and there but people came in to break the fight up and I grabbed unto the collar of his uniform because I didn't want to give him the chance to hit me during the break up(It never crossed my mind that my first move might have taken him out of commission) while people were trying to pull/lift me off of him,I pulled his uniform over his head and had him in a neck crank/can opener position,It looked like this:
but the difference is that rather than grabbing the back of his head,I was grabbing unto his uniform and pulling his head down with it while the other were trying to get me off of him. They couldn't get me off of him at all until one of the teachers came in front of me yelling at me to stop. I let go once I felt it was safe to do so.
Once I let him go,I stared straight into his eyes,ready to take him down again if he pushes it but his reaction surprised me. He instead looked away and started laughing uncontrollably. Asking everyone in the area what the hell's the matter with me. Its like his previous aggression towards me before the fight began had completely disappeared. I think this is what you mean when you say effective movement causes an opponent to lose the will to fight.
After that,the teachers spoke to both of us and we both ended up making peace. The fight happened in front of the entire high school,and many of my fellow students were praising me for what I did(many hated him). although there were a few who didn't like me and thought I was a violent guy for it,I didn't give a damn about those people(I actually gave those people an insulting smile when they called me violent,haha)
a lot of people say violence is never the answer,that's just a big load of shit. John and every other bully in the school wasn't interested in messing with me anymore after that fight. I'd say that solved my problem.
Anyway,what do you think? Truth be told,I went home very proud of myself that day,I could never forget that moment. I had probably fulfilled every violent geek's wet dream on that day,haha. I thrashed the baddest bully without any injuries or long term negative consequences. Do you think grappling was the right move? I may not have been able to take him out brawling/striking with him,I simply did not have the training at the time. The month of training I had in boxing has taught me how to hit correctly but I have no idea if I could use my training in a similarly intense situation. I haven't been in a fight ever since.
One last question,how exactly do you defend against the chair tackle I did? I remember reading somewhere a guy defended against this move by pulling guard(a BJJ move)and flip over the opponent but there might be a better move because pulling guard still means you get slammed into the ground. I apologize for this very long message but I didn't want to remove any important details like I did in that facebook PM I sent you.
ANSWER(Marc Macyoung,the self-defense instructor I was talking to
): It was a fight. It happens. There are all kinds of weird things that happen in fights that once you understand the social aspects and adrenaline make all kinds of sense. (Like the guy laughing after getting beaten -- people when they don't know what to do often laugh out of sheer adrenaline.) But I want to look at something else.
There's an old saying among cops that EVERY situation they're involved in there's a gun present -- because they bring it.
There IS a guy present who won't stop and will keep on beating someone long after things should have been settled. It's you.
You've mentioned two incidents that were broken up by others. That's actually a good sign. That means there's some kind of social order where you're fighting. Berserks and "I can't surrender because it isn't safe" is usually inappropriate for that kind of violence. You going berserk out of fear and fixating on getting hurt -- and in doing so not stopping after you defeated him.
The issue is you have to learn how to control that.
If you're fighting from fear, anger or pride (which you've referred to multiple times with humiliated, hate, terrified, etc.)then you're going to step on your dick sooner or later. If every time you fight you're convinced you're fighting for your life or that if you don't stop he'll hurt you, YOU are going to be the one who crosses the line and hurts someone. Like going to prison hurts someone.
It may come as a surprise, but most people don't want to fight. Fighting is dangerous. Fighting is painful. Fighting causes problems. Having said that, there are times where those costs have to be paid because there's no compromise in some people until you smash them in the face, still other people can only be stopped by brute force. (The two are not the same. The first won't compromise until you can show you can back it up. The second you're going to have to hurt or kill.)
Right now your emotions and pride are driving the bus. You won't fight until those overwhelm you -- then those are driving your decisions in the violence. I say violence because if you aren't willing to ease off when someone tries to surrender (or you've obviously won)or you don't know how to end a violent confrontation* then the problem is you. That's not fighting. That's a different kind of violence -- and until you learn how to control it, it ain't good.
*yes, there's a process for winding down conflict. This isn't about fighting per se, but it gives you a rough outline
You obviously have some physical skills, now it's time to start working on learning how to control your emotions and fear so you don't get hurt or hurt someone else. There's a time and a place for violence. Learn to spot when it is and isn't time and react appropriately. But more importantly, learn how to unwind the situation after there's been conflict. If you can do that, you're way ahead of pretty much everyone else.
a - get into unnecessary violence
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION(Me): Well,like I said. I was scared and I made all kinds of assumptions about the guy I'm fighting. Realistically speaking though,a punch will not always take someone out but will a slam always work? or are there people out there who are so tough that they can take that same slam I used and still keep on fighting? I had thought my opponent would be such a person,hence my actions.
"The issue is you have to learn how to control that"
- Would Adrenal Stress Training help me with this and replicate the intense adrenal experience I had? (Well,either way it will help with my fighting skills as long as its quality training like Peyton Quinn's RMCAT or Bill Kipp's FAST...If I ever get the chance someday)
"there's no compromise in some people until you smash them in the face"
-EXACTLY! and even if you lose,if you manage to at least bang them up,they ain't gonna want to mess with you. Funnily enough,the guy who rocked me didn't even want to mess with me anymore after our fight and I didn't even hurt him,just clinched up with him. maybe its because he saw that I still managed to put up a resistance despite hitting me with his best shots,but I'm just speculating at this point.
and yes,there's a time and place for violence. I agree,although in this particular instance that I mentioned,I do strongly believe that I made the right choice by smashing john. I reaped far more benefits than any bad consequences from it.
Its been a few years since I've gotten in a violent situation. I've since then mellowed out and I can now avoid going unnecessarily violent,or at least I think I can. Still,I wanted to speak with about my experiences with someone experienced in the field of violence such as yourself
ANSWER(Marc): >Well,like I said. I was scared and I made all kinds of assumptions about the guy I'm fighting. >Realistically speaking though,a punch will not always take someone out but will a slam always >work? or are there people out there who are so tough that they can take that same slam I used >and still keep on fighting? I had thought my opponent would be such a person,hence my actions.
You fight the guy in front of you, not your imagination. Otherwise you're going to be more focused on what he might do instead of what he's actually doing. That's a good way to end up dead or in prison.
>The issue is you have to learn how to control that"
>- Would Adrenal Stress Training help me with this and replicate the intense adrenal experience >I had? (Well,either way it will help with my fighting skills as long as its quality training >like Peyton Quinn's RMCAT or Bill Kipp's FAST...If I ever get the chance someday)
It might. But practicing what the Buddhists call 'mindfulness' in your everyday life doesn't require travel and it's something you can start doing now. Pay attention to life around you. Look for patterns of behavior. (In fact you can play a game of 'what's going to happen next?) You'll find humans are very predictable. In general they react in certain ways. Learn these ways. Watch. Don't judge, just watch. Wait until the situation is done before you make a decision (you'll see a lot more if you don't make up your mind so quick.) After a while you'll begin to see bigger patterns. Patterns that you'll be able to tell if the person is following or not. If it's a benign pattern let it wind down (or you can land it quicker). If not, don't let it get that far. There's lots of ways to end it. It's just a matter of: What's the best one for that situation? But you won't be able to choose until you understand the patterns.
>"there's no compromise in some people until you smash them in the face"
>-EXACTLY! and even if you lose,if you manage to at least bang them up,they ain't gonna want >to mess with you. Funnily enough,the guy who rocked me didn't even want to mess with me >anymore after our fight and I didn't even hurt him,just clinched up with him. maybe its >because he saw that I still managed to put up a resistance despite hitting me with his best >shots,but I'm just speculating at this point.
Don't project that onto others if it's inside of you. I tell the cops I train that 90% of all situations can be de-escalated. There's 10% that can't. That means if you have a 75% of all the situations you find yourself in go physical, the problem is with you and what you're doing.
But you have to
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION(Me): I understand what you're trying to tell me. I can wholeheartedly say I hope this will be the last physically violent event of my life and that the peaceful path I walk on now will continue on for the rest of my life. I know I'm not invincible,I know that engaging in daily violence is a dead end life path and that I should leave the violence path while I still haven't experienced the nastier parts of it.
There's only a one more question I'd like to ask.
Notice the Adrenal Decay I talk about in my story? Will full-contact martial arts training fix this problem? or is this something that can only be handled by doing both full contact training and adrenal stress training?
There is no single answer to your question. Each can -- and will -- contribute to helping you learn how to function under adrenal stress, but it's something that in the final analysis boils down to you being able to do it.
And you can be great at functioning under one set of circumstances, but fall apart in another. So like I said, no simple answer
EDIT: BTW,thanks for that movie recommendation. I'll check it out at another time. Right now,I'm busy playing visual novels.