This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

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RedKryptonite
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby RedKryptonite » 13 Jan 2018 18:43

@Summerlander
May I ask if you've ever read any of Benatar's books? While browsing that coolchildfreeguy blog,I managed to find a free pdf of his book "Better to never have been"
http://vk.com/doc151440227_220518152

I haven't read it yet(will do so soon)but this is where I got the idea between the difference of whether its ever worth starting a life vs continuing a life.

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Summerlander
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby Summerlander » 13 Jan 2018 22:23

I never read Benatar's literature. I first heard of him on Sam Harris's Waking Up podcast not too long ago. Sam Harris recommends it even though he played a little bit of a devil's advocate. Harris is more of an optimistic nihilist. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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RedKryptonite
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby RedKryptonite » 14 Jan 2018 06:00

Summerlander wrote:I never read Benatar's literature. I first heard of him on Sam Harris's Waking Up podcast not too long ago. Sam Harris recommends it even though he played a little bit of a devil's advocate. Harris is more of an optimistic nihilist. 8-)

I see. Take note however that you can be an Optimistic Nihilist and still be Antinatalist. That's pretty much what I am. :mrgreen:

The philosophy of Optimistic Nihilism(at least according to TV tropes where I learned the term)is simply about striving for coexistence and making the most out of our lives since we're already here now and destined to die anyway. It definitely doesn't conflict with the Antinatalist philosophy. I would even say that the 2 philosophies have perfect synergy with one another.

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Summerlander
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby Summerlander » 14 Jan 2018 20:19

In fact you are right. 8-)

Sam Harris still endorses antinatalism as making a good point and something that perhaps we should all ponder on. If you already exist, make the most of it because there are ways to ease the tension---such as mindfulness---and suicide has adverse effects on the bereaved, namely, more unnecessary suffering; so, ethically, we don't want to go there.

Have you listened to the podcast, by the way? Benatar and Harris engage in a very intelligent conversation. They are our cup of tea all the way! ;)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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RedKryptonite
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby RedKryptonite » 15 Jan 2018 15:33

Summerlander wrote:Have you listened to the podcast, by the way? Benatar and Harris engage in a very intelligent conversation. They are our cup of tea all the way! ;)

I'll check it out at a later time. I often lack the patience and attention span to listen to a podcast,but I'll certainly consider give it my ear later on.

I hope this question isn't offensive,but had your young 20 year old self knew what you know now. Would you have chosen to go Childfree? or would you have chosen to adopt?

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Summerlander
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby Summerlander » 16 Jan 2018 05:14

Child-free. I didn't even hesitate to answer the question. :mrgreen:

I do care about my kids but I wouldn't have them for antinatalist reasons. My kids have already suffered---especially in 2016 when they lost their nan. And they'll continue to suffer in this life as we all do. I can't guarantee them a lifetime of steadfast felicity. I would have spared them this crazy struggle for sure ...

... not to mention the contemplation of loss and imminent death threatening the anthropic urge for self-preservation. :|

The question isn't offensive at all. If I hadn't been so mindlessly silly I would have realised that caring is sparing the unborn from existence. :shock:

I wouldn't adopt either. I've had to learn to be patient with childishness in the course of my parenthood. I can just about tolerate my kids. I love them but I dislike children in general. :twisted:

Don't get me wrong---I don't blame them for what they are!---but childcare isn't for me. I applaud those who adopt and give orphans a new home and I'm glad they do what I could not. :)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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RedKryptonite
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby RedKryptonite » 17 Jan 2018 10:55

:lol: To be honest,I was predicting this was going to be your answer. I was right,we're on the same boat. :D

Why do you think most Atheists don't ever become Antinatalists? is it because they were simply never introduced to the idea and it never occurs to them the consequences of procreation?

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Summerlander
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby Summerlander » 17 Jan 2018 11:56

Yes. Many were never introduced to the idea and others like the quixotic notion of preserving humankind until we finally reach the stars. :)

It's like some Darwinists supporting Social Darwinism as they erroneously believe that behaving on evolution's principle of survival of the fittest is what's 'morally right'. This is a terrible mistake because we can think of better ways to live our lives which are far divorced from nature's amoral madness.

An oil magnate might apply Social Darwinist tactics in his business to outdo his competition. But in life the rule that the strong have the right to crush the weak is unhealthy and unethical. We can all coexist by supporting one another.

I support Darwinism in the sense that much of it has been empirically verified. I do not condone Social Darwinism because I recognise nature is a horror show of predators and prey on a stage where morality is scarce.

You catch my drift? 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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RedKryptonite
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby RedKryptonite » 17 Jan 2018 12:32

Summerlander wrote:Yes. Many were never introduced to the idea and others like the quixotic notion of preserving humankind until we finally reach the stars. :)

It's like some Darwinists supporting Social Darwinism as they erroneously believe that behaving on evolution's principle of survival of the fittest is what's 'morally right'. This is a terrible mistake because we can think of better ways to live our lives which are far divorced from nature's amoral madness.

An oil magnate might apply Social Darwinist tactics in his business to outdo his competition. But in life the rule that the strong have the right to crush the weak is unhealthy and unethical. We can all coexist by supporting one another.

I support Darwinism in the sense that much of it has been empirically verified. I do not condone Social Darwinism because I recognise nature is a horror show of predators and prey on a stage where morality is scarce.

You catch my drift? 8-)

Yes,I do. :D

http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2012/12/unnaturally-good.html

I could only imagine how horrible life would be if we had never moved past the ruthless "survival of the fittest" race. (that's not to say that life isn't still a painful race,because if it wasn't,we wouldn't be such advocates of Antinatalism now,would we? :mrgreen: )
Kind and compassionate people indeed make the world a little less painful.

I suppose you can say that is the one aspect of human nature that is beautiful,the power to defy our "supposed nature."

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Summerlander
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Re: This is why I support Genetic Engineering and Parenting training

Postby Summerlander » 17 Jan 2018 15:16

Absolutely. I couldn't resonate more. There are beautiful and awesome aspects about life. Happiness is a real phenomenon too. And indeed we can mitigate the pain of living. But antinatalism remains solid in my view. Moments of happiness are fleeting and the bad outweighs the good when we take into account a whole lifetime. Nobody is exempt from this simple fact. We should be glad that nobody gets out alive from this insidious nightmare.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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