What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

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RedKryptonite
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016 02:26

What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby RedKryptonite » 20 May 2018 10:45

Hi Everyone. I posted this as a question in a lucid dreaming discord group I'm a part of,but I felt this I should also share this here,as I want to hear the opinions of others outside the group. Here's the copy-pasta of my question:

I just had a conversation with someone on reddit that reminded me of a conversation I had with you guys about how the only ways I know of to save chronic bullying victims is to either
- Remove them from the school system(home school)
- Teach them how to fight(and the willingness to go for it)

This is primarily going to be about option #2

Allow me to share a blog post by Rory Miller(an excellent self-defense instructor IMO)discussing this very topic:
http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2012/12/bullying-as-human-behavior.html

Everything he says here I can definitely resonate with. The only ways I know of to deter serious bullies is to either be invisible("not interesting enough to be messed with") or be an "expensive victim".

Social skills and the like are good for achieving invisibility to bullies. Not so much when you've already been selected,and/or there's just something about you that seems to consistenly attract their attention. (Unless your friends are willing to band together with you to beat the bully/bullies up. but that's rare,I've never seen it happen personally).

In this case,violence. or the "threat of violence" (having/showing the willingness to engage)may be the only thing that will help you.

The question then becomes; What's better for the child? To avoid the entire problem altogether and put them in a home school system? (perhaps getting some professional help/advice to help develop their social skills)

Or teach them how to physically handle themselves and then have them engage the bully at school?

It would seem both approaches may have their pros and cons. Option #2,if successful,could teach them the value of bravery and standing up for oneself.

But its really risky,not just because of the fight itself,but because the school/society may punish them for standing up. (The ineffective "zero tolerance policies" in school. That redditor I spoke revealed to me that he was once seriously beaten up by 6 bullies resulting in hospitalization. The bullies got away with it scot free. How the hell do you excuse this kind of shit?).

If unsuccessful,there may very well be serious and permanent psychological/emotional consequences.

Rory Miller got into this type of topic in his other post here:
http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2013/08/for-tiffani.html

I'd certainly like to hear your thoughts/opinions regarding the topic.

My Verdict:
Really depends on the circumstances. But you can do both. Temporarily remove the victim from the school system and while homeschooling them,perhaps have them attend a high quality self-defense/Martial arts program (Gracie Combatives/Bullyproof is good,then maybe supplement it with boxing/muay thai training or,if its within your reach,a high quality Adrenal stress training program like Peyton Quinn's RMCAT program and the like) so that if they ever have to return to the traditional school system,they'll at least have the tools to handle the problem.

Force against bullies worked in my case,despite my lack of any combat/self-defense/martial arts training,I'm a naturally big,strong person and quite a bit of a dirty bastard and that was thankfully enough to prevail most of my encounters. I realize however that not everyone is in that same position and may require a bit of a different solution. (Take note however that this is not a replacement to learning good social skills. Even though I was frequently violent as a child,I still got shunned because I didn't know how to get along with others well at the time. again,I'm not saying every chronic bullying victim suffers from this problem,but many do and needless to say,its like a magnet attractor to bullies.)

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LDer Charles
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Joined: 09 Oct 2017 13:40

Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby LDer Charles » 21 May 2018 22:24

Hi RedKryptonite! I got your PM and read your message. However, I have no clue! I experience some level of bullying probably every day... A lot of times I have very little recourse. Especially if its more intellectual bullying, where they didn't lay a hand on me, I can't physically defend myself. So I'm just learning to spot red flags, and steer clear. As for kids that have to go through it, I don't know. As to why bullying happens, I don't know. I think its a worth-while concern though.
Here is a link to my dream journal if you want to know what I am up to in the dream world! :)
https://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/charles3/

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LDer Charles
Posts: 291
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Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby LDer Charles » 21 May 2018 22:47

RedKryptonite wrote:Hi Everyone. I posted this as a question in a lucid dreaming discord group I'm a part of,but I felt this I should also share this here,as I want to hear the opinions of others outside the group. Here's the copy-pasta of my question:

I just had a conversation with someone on reddit that reminded me of a conversation I had with you guys about how the only ways I know of to save chronic bullying victims is to either
- Remove them from the school system(home school)
- Teach them how to fight(and the willingness to go for it)

This is primarily going to be about option #2

Allow me to share a blog post by Rory Miller(an excellent self-defense instructor IMO)discussing this very topic:
http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2012/12/bullying-as-human-behavior.html

Everything he says here I can definitely resonate with. The only ways I know of to deter serious bullies is to either be invisible("not interesting enough to be messed with") or be an "expensive victim".

Social skills and the like are good for achieving invisibility to bullies. Not so much when you've already been selected,and/or there's just something about you that seems to consistenly attract their attention. (Unless your friends are willing to band together with you to beat the bully/bullies up. but that's rare,I've never seen it happen personally).

In this case,violence. or the "threat of violence" (having/showing the willingness to engage)may be the only thing that will help you.

The question then becomes; What's better for the child? To avoid the entire problem altogether and put them in a home school system? (perhaps getting some professional help/advice to help develop their social skills)

Or teach them how to physically handle themselves and then have them engage the bully at school?

It would seem both approaches may have their pros and cons. Option #2,if successful,could teach them the value of bravery and standing up for oneself.

But its really risky,not just because of the fight itself,but because the school/society may punish them for standing up. (The ineffective "zero tolerance policies" in school. That redditor I spoke revealed to me that he was once seriously beaten up by 6 bullies resulting in hospitalization. The bullies got away with it scot free. How the hell do you excuse this kind of shit?).

If unsuccessful,there may very well be serious and permanent psychological/emotional consequences.

Rory Miller got into this type of topic in his other post here:
http://chirontraining.blogspot.com/2013/08/for-tiffani.html

I'd certainly like to hear your thoughts/opinions regarding the topic.

My Verdict:
Really depends on the circumstances. But you can do both. Temporarily remove the victim from the school system and while homeschooling them,perhaps have them attend a high quality self-defense/Martial arts program (Gracie Combatives/Bullyproof is good,then maybe supplement it with boxing/muay thai training or,if its within your reach,a high quality Adrenal stress training program like Peyton Quinn's RMCAT program and the like) so that if they ever have to return to the traditional school system,they'll at least have the tools to handle the problem.

Force against bullies worked in my case,despite my lack of any combat/self-defense/martial arts training,I'm a naturally big,strong person and quite a bit of a dirty bastard and that was thankfully enough to prevail most of my encounters. I realize however that not everyone is in that same position and may require a bit of a different solution. (Take note however that this is not a replacement to learning good social skills. Even though I was frequently violent as a child,I still got shunned because I didn't know how to get along with others well at the time. again,I'm not saying every chronic bullying victim suffers from this problem,but many do and needless to say,its like a magnet attractor to bullies.)


You could also check out r/bullying and see if you could get a sense of what's actually happening to kids. And see if you could help anyone. I just checked out r/bullying. It seems pretty active and kids posting about how they're being bullied, and asking for help.
Here is a link to my dream journal if you want to know what I am up to in the dream world! :)
https://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/charles3/

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Peter
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Location: New Zealand

Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby Peter » 22 May 2018 08:36

Hi, I have been absent from the forum for a while as pretty busy but this one got me back so thanks.
Bullying - one answer and that's to deal to the bullies. I own a private school for training for primary industry and see a few arrive with bullying attitudes and the only way to deal with it from a management point of view is to give it back in a very firm way. That's not violence but making it plain what they are doing and in a way that often brings tears. I make no excuses for this as it works well.
As far as being bullied the victims need (IMO) to give it back hard and fast and settle it. I did that as a kid, I got picked on a bit but each time sorted if fast and that was the end of it, my son got a very hard time at school for a while and no support from the staff there so in the end he smacked one of the bullies pretty hard and it all stopped.

They tend to do it for entertainment and so any attention short of a bigger version of what they are giving out I feel is a waste of time.
I have had a school as an owner for 21 years and before that managed ships crew at sea for another 20 so have seen a lot of bad behaviour in those 40 years. Pretty firm that bullies need a good dose of what they are offering
Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

lucidé
Posts: 584
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby lucidé » 24 May 2018 06:10

Teachers I am sad to say are not handling the bullying in the correct way and sometimes not only encourage bullying, but are bullies themselves.
One problem I have seen with bullying is sometimes a victim is outnumbered. Like when I was beat up in middle school, there were 10 bullies attacking me. Even if the victim did know Karate, if they up against too many bullies, self defense can only take them so far.
Another problem I see and it is especially bad in Utah is there is bullying in the adult world if you don’t fit with specific standards. I got bullied quite a bit because my blood thinners made me obese. Since I got off them, I have been anorexic. People (especially females) will get bullied often over obesity and anorexia is way too often encouraged. Also there is discrimination over many things such as gender, orientation, religion/non-religion, and more. All of those things will result in bullying. Protesting is okay, but when it gets to the point of assault, vandalism, and arson, it is not okay.
One huge problem I have is in most school shootings, the teachers and the bullies are playing the victim card. With the last one that just happened and many others (in Texas), the shooter was schizo. There has to be a limit, because schizo is dangerous if untreated and provoked. Dark Matter even had a video that showed exactly how dangerous bullying a schizophrenic could be (despite the fact people ignore it). If the teachers cannot or will not protect a student with a mental disorder, what needs to happen is they need to be sent to a special education school. I can guarantee if kids with bipolar and schizophrenia were sent to special schools where they would never be bullied and could get the medications they needed, school shootings would go way down.

As far as the best way to deal with the bullying, learn karate and teach the next generation karate. To deal with groups of bullies, find a narrow hiding spot where only one bully will fit at a time (such as a bathroom stall, and sad to say, they allow bullies in there too), and then when the bully tries to fight, attack! After knocking out the first bully, you can knock out the others 1 at a time. Since teachers either will not get involved or will often side will bullies, you are better off learning to fight back. This would have gotten me expelled from that middle school if I tried this, but I wouldn’t have cared.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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LoneDreamer
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Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby LoneDreamer » 21 Jun 2018 04:31

If you ask me homeschooling normal kids isn't that great solution since I feel it hampers the social skills of the kid. But I will recommend fighting back. But I can't give much of an opinion in this cause, i wasn't bullied that much. I am more of an outcast rather than a bully victim. Bullies aren't much of a problem here. Its because teachers here take care of it properly, if they notice it. And the parents aren't overprotective(atleast the old ones weren't), if they hear a complaint about their kid, they make them behave(most do). And the kids aren't too bad, although some are douche but they are by the time they grow up. So that helps. But it does happen to a small extent though. When I was in middle school i usually avoided bullies by being invisible, and if that didn't work, i would lash out back at them. But most annoying kids were the toppers. They were most annoying with their holier than thou attitude and usually looked down upon normal kids. But I believe By high school that brattiness may have reduced to some extent.(i don't know since I moved out of there)By high school, physical bullying wasn't that much. Usually it was being always being made fun of that. I avoided most of that by being invisible and was kinda hot headed and impulsive. But if you ignored their annoying behaviour to some extent, they were okay guys. They usually will help if requested. But I have heard that bullying is big problem in colleges in my country, i haven't been to college yet so, can say about that.

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RedKryptonite
Posts: 253
Joined: 13 Oct 2016 02:26

Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby RedKryptonite » 21 Jun 2018 10:52

LoneDreamer wrote:If you ask me homeschooling normal kids isn't that great solution since I feel it hampers the social skills of the kid.

I believe that would only be true if you don't supplement the homeschooling schedule with a social hobby of the child's choice. In fact,I feel this may arguably be a better way to develop sociability,rather than the forced collaboration that schools put upon the students.

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Summerlander
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Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby Summerlander » 22 Jun 2018 22:21

I believe that perhaps some kids require home-schooling and protection from public environments. It's not one glove fits all in regards to education.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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RedKryptonite
Posts: 253
Joined: 13 Oct 2016 02:26

Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby RedKryptonite » 23 Jun 2018 09:39

Summerlander wrote:I believe that perhaps some kids require home-schooling and protection from public environments. It's not one glove fits all in regards to education.

Agreed. Its just a shame that our society thinks this way in regards to schooling. There are children out there who would have prospered had they been raised/educated in another way rather than forced through the dogmatic modern educational system.

BTW I just recently made a new post,I'm sure it would be of great interest to you. ;) (and you too LoneDreamer,I'd certainly like to hear your thoughts on Anti-Natalism)

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20760

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Summerlander
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Re: What is the best way to tackle the school bullying epidemic?

Postby Summerlander » 23 Jun 2018 21:34

Antinatalism needs more intellectual mavericks to vouch for it. Its philosophy remains true to morality. Jordan Peterson's ciunterargument is deeply flawed in this regard. I admire his courage against political correctness and postmodernism, but his views on what it means to bring more people into existence and the notion of free will are simply wrong.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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