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Help with Crossing the Sleep/Wake Border

Posted: 02 Dec 2014 07:45
by jdoe73034
I am trying to use WILD upon going to bed (no WBTB). It is said that WILD is difficult for beginners and hard to achieve without WBTB, but I am trying nonetheless. I can achieve sleep paralysis very, very easily, but I have a couple of problems.

1. For the hypnagogic visualization, I can visualize with my (conscious) mind's eye and even let my subconscious slightly influence it, but I find it impossible to focus on my closed eyelids. Trying to see the hypnagogia is like trying to stare directly at one of those grey dots in the visual illusion with the black rectangles in grid formation forming rows and columns of negative space aka white.

2. If I stay awake struggling with hypnagogia, the sleep paralysis will eventually start getting uncomfortable. It will slowly increase to a point where I can't fight it anymore and I roll over. However, after a few minutes, I need to move my body again. The only way to fall asleep is to start counting in my head (I usually get into around 300s before falling asleep) and hope I fall asleep before the next wave of discomfort. This works most of the time, but on a couple of nights (including last night), this has not worked, and it has taken me FOREVER to fall asleep. Those nights were absolutely horrible, and I hope to avoid them completely.

Any ideas on how to fix these problems?
- John Doe -

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Re: Help with Crossing the Sleep/Wake Border

Posted: 03 Dec 2014 06:54
by taniaaust1
First of all you have to get rid of some notions you have.

WILD isnt hard for all beginners. LD techniques and how hard people find them all depends on the individual, some beginners have found it easier then some other techniques. Thinking anything is hard when it comes to dealing with the subconsciousness (which is what dreaming is) can cause that very thing then to become hard or harder.

Secondly, there is no set way to do a WILD. WILD is just triggering off a LD from a waking state. You do not need to be doing hypnagogia in any set way, in fact some of us who do WILD eg myself, do not get any hypnagogia at all yet we can WILD at times. I usually go straight from a non sleep state into a LD.

Its often when things have got feeling unbearable to me eg I need to move, in which I've suddenly then found myself in a dream. Sometimes our subconsciousness tries to distract us from doing this and "needing to move" "needing to scratch" or other things along this line ("I need to swallow" "my mouth has gone dry" etc) . These can be just ourselves distracting us.

. For the hypnagogic visualization, I can visualize with my (conscious) mind's eye and even let my subconscious slightly influence it,

I suggest to relax more when you get this.

Have you tried to enter into your hynagogia? or are you only trying to watch it and hence then have it separate to you? On the rare occassions I get it, I use it to enter into the WILD. Maybe try taking yourself into it eg imagine, allow yourself to feel yourself moving towards it or it coming towards you eg it will get bigger and bigger the closer you get to it and then suddenly its surrounding. Once one gets closer to it, I find I merge with it.

or you can try to interact with it eg say the hynagogia involves seeing people. Try to mentally talk to them.

Anyway these are my suggestions..

trying to relax more with things and seeing where that takes you (simply do less but with the knowing you WILL enter in at some point. Not being able to get to sleep shows you arent relaxing enough in some way eg you may be doing to much mental stimulation or trying too hard) ..


try to merge with that hypnagogia (develop that kind of techniques, it really is a technique people can practice and develop).

There are no right or wrong ways, its just a case of finding what works best for you or developing some new techniques to use to help.

You have told yourself that WILD is "hard" and your subconscious is now doing things which are making it hard "I need to move again".. its just like the person who keeps getting distracted by an itch..its your brain creating that senstation. Instead of working with you, your subconscious is working against you. I suggest to never be using LD techniques that you believe are going to be hard as that is setting yourself up for failure before you even start.