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Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 09 Aug 2013 00:25
by deschainXIX
Leave your response to these questions below. Give your answer, reasoning, argument, whatever else you want.

-Is it ethical to kill or torture people in a lucid dream? What if you know the person you're killing in real life?
-Is it ethical to have sex/ be intimate with a dream character? What if you have a girlfriend/boyfriend in real life? What if the sex isn't consensual?
-Is it ethical to steal money or possessions from a dream character?
-Is it ethical to possess a dream character (or use mind control. however you want to phrase it) and force them to do things they do not want to do?
-Is it ethical to enslave dream characters?

When you answer the questions, try to come up with other ethical questions concerning lucid dreaming.

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 09 Aug 2013 03:14
by Jacob46719
it's not real life, so i'm pretty dang sure it's okay.

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 09 Aug 2013 03:44
by deschainXIX
The other day, I watched a newscast that was talking about a recent video game that had been created. The video game in question was one that just had the sole purpose of torturing people that were put in front of you. And this game prompted a HUGE ethical debate. People were outraged.
So, there is a certain level of ethics behind virtual realities ... it's why we give video games and movies ratings, so that children aren't exposed to things they can't handle.
Thus, it doesn't matter if its not "real." Our society today will still question the ethics behind it, because we live in a world that is constantly trying to improve and develop itself.
Besides, that's a whole other debate on "what constitutes reality."

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 09 Aug 2013 05:36
by Ryan
Keep in mind that whatever you do has a spiritual repercussion.
Doing negative things when you know they're wrong isn't the best way to grow as a consciousness. :)

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 09 Aug 2013 06:15
by AceOfSpades
To answer in the the order asked.
-Not unless they deserve it and if it's someone you know, better in the dream than risking Life to the Chair doing it in real life.
-If you love said character yes. if you have a boyfriend/girlfriend, it's unethical but nothing is stopping you from doing it. If it's not consensual, while there is nothing stopping you, it still is in poor taste.

As for the ethical question of my own I only have this to say "What measure is non human?"

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 09 Aug 2013 12:47
by deschainXIX
AceOfSpades wrote:-If you love said character yes.

Is it healthy to fall in love with a dream character, though? If they are mere projections with no meaning at all, you could never see that person again, so it could be painful. And if they are literal parts of our subconscious, then it could lead to narcissism or things like that. Either way, the person isn't "real" (although the question of 'reality' is tricky), and, in real life, society would consider it extremely weird and screwed up if a person fell in love with a character from virtual reality. VR with a level of realism on par with lucid dreaming is technology that is not too distant. Look, we're already developing it, with the Oculus Rift.

In response to the question:
"What measure is human?"
I'd say the only way we can truly identify someone as human is by self-identification. It will get to the point, I think, where the only thing that truly matters is self-identification. If a person calls himself/herself human then that's as close as we can get to knowing.

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 09 Aug 2013 15:18
by AceOfSpades
When I said that I wasn't joking, I am well aware of what the consequences of falling in love with a made up character let alone a dream character.
1. Anyone in the real world wouldn't be able to measure up to the love you share with this one.
2. Because it's an extension of yourself it's literally Narcissism as well as adding new meaning to the words "Go fuck yourself."
However despite all that it is pretty healthy, so long as you don't make it an obsession.

As for your answer to my question. You just helped me out more than you ever known, because that is literally the answer I was looking for.

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 11 Aug 2013 13:26
by Swift
Before I say anything, I just want to tell you that your canine companion there is extremely adorable!

Anyway, as for doing all these actions in a dream,
I say why not. As long as you don't go around and do these types of things in real life, it doesn't really affect anyone but the dreamer.

I have a friend who joined the military and as horrible as this sounds, used to sniper dream characters so he could deal with it mentally and find it easier to cope.

For me personally, I sometimes fight dream characters to help with my training. It doesn't improve my physical fitness but it helps me to train myself for what my opponent might be thinking.

There's my little input on the subject XD

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 13 Aug 2013 02:22
If you are an ethical person (by that I mean someone with empathy) it is hard to do any of those things in a dream without repercussions in the dream or even waking up with guilt. Even if you know it is the perfect crime, you also know that you feel guilty and it can ruin the dream.

I have no problems killing a dream character if they piss me off, but I don't use my fists, I just wave my hand and they fling away. (They don't always go away so easily..... and they sometimes fight me). But I have noticed that they fight me whenever I feel I have done something in the dream that I have deemed 'bad' or immoral.

One time I stole food from a vendor, (it was some barbecue ribs and tasted great), but as soon as I did, EVERYBODY in the whole dream world knew it and came after me. I couldn't stop them and I woke up. It was like they reacted to my inner guilt. OR it's like the Murphy's Law of lucid dreaming: If you think something is going to happen, it happens. I wanted to keep it a secret, and guess what happened... THE EXACT OPPOSITE and they all knew it!

One time I had a sandwich bag (ziplock) and as I ate the contents (forget what it was) I decided to be a douchebag and pour the remaining liquid left inside the bag over a perfect stranger. THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT! They came after me and I couldn't will them away. (Sometimes I like to be a jerk in a dream for the heck of it, but yet again it ruined the dream.)

This last example was more profound and has stuck with me the most because I experimented in the dream on purpose. I was in a suburban street and the visuals were very 'wonky' and it wasn't quite vivid. But I was still very lucid and could feel my emotions and excitement as I interacted with the dream world. I saw a child and decided to see what would happen if I hurt him. (Again the visuals were very unstable, and no sense of touch, but I could still feel strong emotions). Then to his left, there was a woman who handed me a stick. I then tried to hit the boy (aged 10 or so) over the head. At first I missed for some reason. (My inner morality stopping me). Then finally I bopped him on the head. He was not in pain what soever. HOWEVER, I myself, was overcome with guilt and thought to myself, "Why did I do that?" It changed the entire mood of the dream and I tried to apologize. Then, I will never forget this, the child said, "You are about to find out......" AND DANG! The dream ended! (But the child was not hurt and the only one who suffered was me).

So in conclusion, I have thought about this before. You can get away with anything in a lucid dream, but you can never get away from your own morals. (Your morals are like your thought-police!) And I don't want to overcome it, because it may carry over into waking life.

But to each their own... what do I know?

Re: Lucid Dreaming Ethics Discussion

Posted: 13 Aug 2013 02:35
deschainXIX wrote:The video game in question was one that just had the sole purpose of torturing people that were put in front of you.

Video games are different than dreams (in my experience), because the emotional state is different. I see violence in a game and I find it enjoyable and sometimes even laugh. (And I am not a bad person because of that). It has never taught me to be a killer in real life. This debate is old and started with DOOM and the Columbine school shooting. Dreams are far more emotionally-real.

That's my opinion on that.