False Awakening or OBE?

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Enra Traz
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Enra Traz » 05 Jan 2015 03:37

The evidence against the ridiculous afterlife notion has already been pointed out and scientific theories are not opinions either. Anyone who claims that this is so does not know that the word "theory" in science does not equate with our quotidian use of said word.

Now someone mentioned dark matter and atoms (attributes of physical reality whose effects can be observed and measured directly or indirectly) in the same breath as the fairytale concept of the astral plane. I do not know how much a WIMP or a single atom (Snaggle didn't even specify what type: hydrogen, sodium, uranium... what?) weigh - for I am not a physicist, but I am pretty sure calculations of such, whether theoretically a priori or a posteriori, can be researched. It has nothing to do with notions of astral projection and I am glad Snaggle recognises the phenomenon for what it is in actuality: just dreams.

Although the reptillians is just conspiratorial poop and more relevant to astral projection, or its source, than quantum physics. :-D

Science can demonstrate the afterlife to be extremely unlikely. Dualism is pretty much dead. So how it can disprove something that hasn't even been demonstrated in the slightest, hasn't even gone past the hypothetical mark to reach the heights of elaborate theoretical work in the realm of science (which qualifies it for testing), I don't know...

Some people here are misinformed and swimming in fantasy. So much so that what they require of the scientific community is equivalent to the following: disprove flying pigs. - To which we sceptics reply, "Well, look around you, what do you see?"

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taniaaust1
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby taniaaust1 » 05 Jan 2015 10:48

Summerlander wrote:Where is the astral plane exactly?


Its everywhere.. its like a frequency, just like everything has its own frequency and things there are existing at a similar frequency, hence resonate to each other and can be seen while there. Think of everything existing on the same place .. (quatum physics).. it is there too.

Well that's my answer at this point of time, it could change in future.

Where are atoms? They are physical and they are everywhere in the physical. I think of astral being like that but not here.. a reflection of here upon it (once again the quatum physics coming into it).

Astral plane is inside of you, outside of you and throu you. (I once experienced a astral world in me which another could interact with too.. I had a forest in me).

But I expect you will find this response quite kind of wacked out lol.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

Enra Traz
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Enra Traz » 05 Jan 2015 11:25

A frequency? Can you prove it scientifically? Can you demonstrate its existence objectively? Cuz physicists have been smashing protons at the large hadron collider and found many subatomic, fundamental elements - besides the Higgs boson - but no astral particle so far... :-D

You can even observe the de brogie wave function emission of photons from sodium atoms without the aid of an electron microscope just by sprinkling a flame with salt. Observe the yellow tinge which indicates the quantum mechanical reaction between sodium and the highly charged atoms of the flame...

Atoms exist. You can observe them. Dark matter also exists otherwise galaxies would fly apart in the universe (gravity is not strong enough). Already there are hints that WIMPs (the stuff dark matter is made of) have been indirectly captured here on Earth but scientists like to make sure before saying "for sure." Dark matter definitely exists. The problem is that the atoms of baryonic matter vibrate so violently that it is difficult to see when a WIMP has collided with them.

As for this hypothetical astral realm... not a shred of evidence. And yet, you lot blindly believe that it definitely exists... because you've had dreams, because ectrochemical reactions in your brains made you hallucinate something in your sleep...

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DesertExplorer
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby DesertExplorer » 05 Jan 2015 16:23

Thank you nesgirl!!
Anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it...

- Jesus Christ

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Summerlander
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Summerlander » 05 Jan 2015 20:46

Just as I thought. No refutation or any sort of explanatory retaliation from New Agers. And the sort of answers we see here, on there part, is just incoherent babble or attempts at witty rhetoric with the hidden purpose of avoiding answering simple questions that require logical answers.

And, of course, sometimes with the added intention of attempting to emulate enigmatic Hollywood stars. :-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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DesertExplorer
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby DesertExplorer » 05 Jan 2015 23:56

Friend, please.. I cannot express to you how much I would like to discuss the matter, but you give me nothing to contradict with. I do not know, you do not know, end of story.

You talk about Hollywood stars and new agers trying to avoid simple questions that you think you ask, while I tell you my opinions. I have written nothing witty or rhetoric. If you do not understand something, please feel free to tell me what this specifically is.

If you want me to answer to something specific, then go ahead and ask.
Anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it...

- Jesus Christ

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Summerlander
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Summerlander » 08 Jan 2015 21:41

I already asked, my friend. And you failed to answer coherently. So I'm not wasting my time with someone who is incapable of laying his cards on the table.

You made a tall claim and failed to back it with evidence. You misread my last post, too. I did not talk about Hollywood stars either but I did allude to people trying to emulate them. (Want me to be specific here?)

You are also clearly misguided about the afterlife's probability being a 50-50 scenario. Look around and smell the biological realities that afflict us. One does not need to delve deeply into the realm of neuroscience to see how fragile minds can be. All mental faculties, as I pointed out before, are excisable via CNS damage. Just ask the families of those affected and they'll tell you how parts or the whole of their loved ones have died. There is no room for agnosticism when you examine these realities.

And yet you insist that the fairytale has a 50% chance. Where are you getting this crap? Wishful thinking?

But you are right about one thing. You have written nothing witty or rhetorical here. You couldn't if you tried...:-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Summerlander » 09 Jan 2015 12:36

LMAO! :lol:

Don't worry, nesgirl. None of it is true anyway. Death is pretty final. To put it simply: death means death. :mrgreen:

You will be free of conscious experience one day, which, of course, includes the sense of self. Some old folks say, "I'm getting tired of this shit" to which I reply, "It won't be long now." :mrgreen:

The chemical bonds between their atoms and molecules, which are vital for life, will one day be severed. The atomic conglomerates that once undergirded the ambulant organism will disperse and the identity of that cherished whole will be no more.

The cessation of being. Nirvana on a plate. You won't even miss this world. You couldn't if you tried. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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DesertExplorer
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby DesertExplorer » 09 Jan 2015 17:15

Oh, I apologize about that. I thought you were actually trolling, questioning the exact location of a non-physical realm. If you notice past posts you will see an answer from taniaaust1 telling you that is a frequency. But, it seems that you want to see it sitting there, waiting for proof.

I would like to show it to you, but I'll have to kill you and you will not be able to tell the story. :lol:

The only proof you can find is by yourself! Go and try meditation techniques. It will help you understand. Other than that, I cannot help you. But, we both know that you will keep saying the same thing, so never mind.

And if you think that LD is the same thing with meditation, you've got another thing coming..
Anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it...

- Jesus Christ

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Summerlander
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Re: False Awakening or OBE?

Postby Summerlander » 09 Jan 2015 20:03

Fallacious in your posts as always. Neither meditation nor lucid dreams are evidence of another frequency of reality. They are products of measurable electrochemical activity inside your head. Your ignorance of established scientific facts betray you, friend. If I thought that Tania had answered my question I wouldn't have asked it again.

But now I think YOU are trolling... or you are just oxymoronic by nature. First you said the only way for me to discover this frequency is if I am murdered by you. Then you ask me to try meditation which I have in the past with profound mental results - but none of such numinous experiences constitute proof, of course. (So now there is, apparently, a way to discover it whilst alive - according to you again.)

So, in the same way that you assert the existence of a frequency without evidence, so I dismiss it without evidence. To help you understand the logical pragmatism necessitated by scientific enquiry, envisage this preposterous scenario: Physicists at CERN aver the existence of the Higgs field as they saw the mass-bestowing boson in a dream.

If I am repetitive here, it is only because I insist on the evidence for what you claim and refuse to swallow this fantastic notion on blind faith. Nobody should be expected to do this. Where is your proof? Show me. Exactly, you have none, so stop telling people that their deceased loved ones live on.

This screams of religiosity. You are like a preacher telling whoever listens that you know for sure about something (supernatural) which is beyond their reach. And, of course, the self-proclaimed master would claim privileged access, wouldn't he? :-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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