"False" lucid dream?

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tsunderekatsu
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"False" lucid dream?

Postby tsunderekatsu » 10 Sep 2018 20:44

I previously made a post on the dreams subreddit about this, but I wanted to take this to the source and ask people with more experience.

I'm just starting to cultivate lucid dreams. I began a dedicated effort maybe three months ago, and I've been doing reality checks and whatnot on and off since then - not as much as is probably necessary to get results, but I guess it's better than nothing. I've got endless reasons for wanting to lucid dream, but one of the big ones is that I'm absolutely captivated by the concept of these dreams feeling totally real, as real as my waking life. As lucid dreaming is a skill one can learn and refine, I'm holding out in the hope that I'll soon be getting results, and it does feel like I'm getting closer. I've become more cautious about false awakenings and the automatic assumption that I'm "awake" at any given moment.

A few nights ago, I had a dream in which I was in my house with my family, and suddenly asked myself "Wait, am I dreaming?" I performed a reality check (pinching my nose and trying to breathe), and to my surprise, I discovered that I was dreaming. I excitedly ran outside and briefly levitated, but then "woke up." I realized this was a false awakening and performed another reality check (confirming I was still dreaming), then tried to conjure fire in the palm of my hand, without success. At this point, the "lucid" segment of this dream ended and I receded into normal dream events.

The thing about this "lucid dream" is just... it didn't feel like a lucid dream. I sometimes wonder if I'm just nit-picking, but even though I "realized" I was dreaming and was able to control the dream to some extent, now that I'm looking back on it the dream just doesn't feel real. It feels more like I was watching someone else have a lucid dream, or like I was having a dream ABOUT a lucid dream. The way I behaved was unnatural and completely different from what I'd expect of myself if I genuinely realized I was dreaming - I wouldn't just go frolicking about, I would be much more hesitant, and furthermore, I'd be a lot more surprised instead of just immediately accepting it. And (even though, again, it may just be me nit-picking), the sense of "reality" and detail I have in my waking life was not absent, or at least I don't remember it being there. It felt KIND of real, but that feels like nothing compared to real life.

Where does the definition of a "lucid dream" begin and end? Was this a "real" lucid dream or just my mind playing tricks on me, fabricating a facsimile of a lucid dream? Is this what lucid dreams are really like, or is there more to be found? I want to experience that sense of true reality and detail, and to be as conscious of myself and my memories/rationality as I am when I'm awake, and this dream just didn't feel like that. I'd like to hear some thoughts about this. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Is this a natural step on the road to becoming a lucid dreamer? And, perhaps most of all, will this progress lead me to having lucid dreams as vivid, exciting, and real as they've been described to me?

Thanks a bunch.

(EDIT: sorry, I meant to put this in the For Beginners forum, I hope it's not too much of a problem)
"The way things are isn't the way they have to be." - RTI

Empyreal Sakaki
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Re: "False" lucid dream?

Postby Empyreal Sakaki » 10 Sep 2018 21:51

Hi! Fist, sorry for my English. I understand it almost perfectly, but still struggling when writing.

I had the same problem a few night ago. I had a dream where I knew I was in a dream, made a lot of RCs, stabilized the dream, and a lot of thing you would only find in lucid dreams. But then, I woke up and... had I just have my first lucid dream or did I dreamed that?

After talking with the people in the forum (They are super nice!) and reading here and there, I came to this: it was low lucid dream.

I remembered it like a normal dream, so I was scared that all lucid experiences were like this. But the thing is, when you know you are dreaming, you are lucid, no matter what. It can be a high lucid dream, a fully lucid dream, or, like yours, low lucid dream. You can achieve a high lucidity practicing all days with a lot of determination!!

Another thing I thought of is that I could be lucid at first, but then I lost focus (Sounds a lot like me haha) and it became a normal dream.

I don't know for sure! I am new in lucid dreaming, so, as a begginer, I may be wrong. But this was what I learnt in this site, and I hope it can help you! Don't lose motivation, bye!
LDs: 8
Current dream goal: Petting a Piplup!

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Solaris_142
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Re: "False" lucid dream?

Postby Solaris_142 » 11 Sep 2018 16:35

tsunderekatsu wrote:I previously made a post on the dreams subreddit about this, but I wanted to take this to the source and ask people with more experience.

I'm just starting to cultivate lucid dreams. I began a dedicated effort maybe three months ago, and I've been doing reality checks and whatnot on and off since then - not as much as is probably necessary to get results, but I guess it's better than nothing. I've got endless reasons for wanting to lucid dream, but one of the big ones is that I'm absolutely captivated by the concept of these dreams feeling totally real, as real as my waking life. As lucid dreaming is a skill one can learn and refine, I'm holding out in the hope that I'll soon be getting results, and it does feel like I'm getting closer. I've become more cautious about false awakenings and the automatic assumption that I'm "awake" at any given moment.

A few nights ago, I had a dream in which I was in my house with my family, and suddenly asked myself "Wait, am I dreaming?" I performed a reality check (pinching my nose and trying to breathe), and to my surprise, I discovered that I was dreaming. I excitedly ran outside and briefly levitated, but then "woke up." I realized this was a false awakening and performed another reality check (confirming I was still dreaming), then tried to conjure fire in the palm of my hand, without success. At this point, the "lucid" segment of this dream ended and I receded into normal dream events.

The thing about this "lucid dream" is just... it didn't feel like a lucid dream. I sometimes wonder if I'm just nit-picking, but even though I "realized" I was dreaming and was able to control the dream to some extent, now that I'm looking back on it the dream just doesn't feel real. It feels more like I was watching someone else have a lucid dream, or like I was having a dream ABOUT a lucid dream. The way I behaved was unnatural and completely different from what I'd expect of myself if I genuinely realized I was dreaming - I wouldn't just go frolicking about, I would be much more hesitant, and furthermore, I'd be a lot more surprised instead of just immediately accepting it. And (even though, again, it may just be me nit-picking), the sense of "reality" and detail I have in my waking life was not absent, or at least I don't remember it being there. It felt KIND of real, but that feels like nothing compared to real life.

Where does the definition of a "lucid dream" begin and end? Was this a "real" lucid dream or just my mind playing tricks on me, fabricating a facsimile of a lucid dream? Is this what lucid dreams are really like, or is there more to be found? I want to experience that sense of true reality and detail, and to be as conscious of myself and my memories/rationality as I am when I'm awake, and this dream just didn't feel like that. I'd like to hear some thoughts about this. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Is this a natural step on the road to becoming a lucid dreamer? And, perhaps most of all, will this progress lead me to having lucid dreams as vivid, exciting, and real as they've been described to me?

Thanks a bunch.

(EDIT: sorry, I meant to put this in the For Beginners forum, I hope it's not too much of a problem)



Hello tsunderekatsu! (That is a difficult name to try and spell first thing in the morning.) Cool name though. Welcome to the forum! :)


I'm sorry to hear that the recall of your first experience with lucidity was not as expected. To answer your question about where the definition of lucid begins and ends? That is simply with knowing you are in a dream. And it sounds like you definitely were that. Even being able to catch and overcome your first false awakening which is not easy to do. (At least not for me.) Congratulations on that! And congrats on the dream itself.


As far as your recall of the experience. I can confirm for you that being lucid in a dream can be quite an incredible thing to experience. Actually can be much more intensely vivid and real than waking life. My first experiences with lucidity were pretty high level lucids and having very vivid recall of them. So I didn't feel the way you are feeling about your experience now. So it's difficult for me to relate to that. One thing that can make a dream so intense and vivid is the fact that you experience emotions differently there. Your every thought and emotion is incorporated into the environment. So you can feel the environment you are in in a different (more intense way) than you would in waking life.

As Empyreal Sakaki pointed out there are different levels of awareness you can have. Sometimes just kind of vaguely knowing you are dreaming without the full realization setting in. Other times feeling as aware and clear thinking as in waking life. I encourage you to keep at it.


My suggestion to you, is to make your next lucid dreaming goal to be before you go running off excitedly to play, stop and take note of your surroundings and your awareness. Think about how you are feeling while you are in the dream. Think about how aware you are or how aware you feel. Look around and examine everything that is near you. Pick things up and touch them. Turn items over in your hands. And just marvel at the vivid details of everything. Even the realism of how things feel in your hands. And you will see for yourself how amazing it is to be there in that place fully aware that it's not real. And yet at the same time being in disbelief of the fact that this kind of place seemingly so real exists inside of your mind.

There have been times when while lucid in a dream I have thought about the fact that I have another body sleeping somewhere in another world. And even lucid and knowing what is going on. That I am in a dream. The dream being so powerfully realistic. It's a weird concept to think about while I'm there. That I have another body someplace else laying in a bed sleeping lol. :)

Good Luck!

I think you question is fine being posted here in general lucid discussion. It could be in either this section or beginners I think. So don't worry about that. It is a general discussion about lucidity after all... :)
Previously known in other dreaming communities as Caradon.

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tsunderekatsu
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Re: "False" lucid dream?

Postby tsunderekatsu » 16 Sep 2018 22:36

Empyreal Sakaki wrote:Hi! Fist, sorry for my English. I understand it almost perfectly, but still struggling when writing.

I had the same problem a few night ago. I had a dream where I knew I was in a dream, made a lot of RCs, stabilized the dream, and a lot of thing you would only find in lucid dreams. But then, I woke up and... had I just have my first lucid dream or did I dreamed that?

After talking with the people in the forum (They are super nice!) and reading here and there, I came to this: it was low lucid dream.

I remembered it like a normal dream, so I was scared that all lucid experiences were like this. But the thing is, when you know you are dreaming, you are lucid, no matter what. It can be a high lucid dream, a fully lucid dream, or, like yours, low lucid dream. You can achieve a high lucidity practicing all days with a lot of determination!!

Another thing I thought of is that I could be lucid at first, but then I lost focus (Sounds a lot like me haha) and it became a normal dream.

I don't know for sure! I am new in lucid dreaming, so, as a begginer, I may be wrong. But this was what I learnt in this site, and I hope it can help you! Don't lose motivation, bye!

Thanks a bunch! I've thought about what you said, and I've come to the same conclusion. The definition of "lucidity" is awareness, but there can be different levels of awareness, creating "low" and "high" lucid dreams. I haven't given up, and I'm still striving to have a powerful, vivid lucid dream like those that have been described to me. So again, thanks for your help!
"The way things are isn't the way they have to be." - RTI

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tsunderekatsu
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Re: "False" lucid dream?

Postby tsunderekatsu » 16 Sep 2018 22:44

Solaris_142 wrote:
tsunderekatsu wrote:I previously made a post on the dreams subreddit about this, but I wanted to take this to the source and ask people with more experience.

I'm just starting to cultivate lucid dreams. I began a dedicated effort maybe three months ago, and I've been doing reality checks and whatnot on and off since then - not as much as is probably necessary to get results, but I guess it's better than nothing. I've got endless reasons for wanting to lucid dream, but one of the big ones is that I'm absolutely captivated by the concept of these dreams feeling totally real, as real as my waking life. As lucid dreaming is a skill one can learn and refine, I'm holding out in the hope that I'll soon be getting results, and it does feel like I'm getting closer. I've become more cautious about false awakenings and the automatic assumption that I'm "awake" at any given moment.

A few nights ago, I had a dream in which I was in my house with my family, and suddenly asked myself "Wait, am I dreaming?" I performed a reality check (pinching my nose and trying to breathe), and to my surprise, I discovered that I was dreaming. I excitedly ran outside and briefly levitated, but then "woke up." I realized this was a false awakening and performed another reality check (confirming I was still dreaming), then tried to conjure fire in the palm of my hand, without success. At this point, the "lucid" segment of this dream ended and I receded into normal dream events.

The thing about this "lucid dream" is just... it didn't feel like a lucid dream. I sometimes wonder if I'm just nit-picking, but even though I "realized" I was dreaming and was able to control the dream to some extent, now that I'm looking back on it the dream just doesn't feel real. It feels more like I was watching someone else have a lucid dream, or like I was having a dream ABOUT a lucid dream. The way I behaved was unnatural and completely different from what I'd expect of myself if I genuinely realized I was dreaming - I wouldn't just go frolicking about, I would be much more hesitant, and furthermore, I'd be a lot more surprised instead of just immediately accepting it. And (even though, again, it may just be me nit-picking), the sense of "reality" and detail I have in my waking life was not absent, or at least I don't remember it being there. It felt KIND of real, but that feels like nothing compared to real life.

Where does the definition of a "lucid dream" begin and end? Was this a "real" lucid dream or just my mind playing tricks on me, fabricating a facsimile of a lucid dream? Is this what lucid dreams are really like, or is there more to be found? I want to experience that sense of true reality and detail, and to be as conscious of myself and my memories/rationality as I am when I'm awake, and this dream just didn't feel like that. I'd like to hear some thoughts about this. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Is this a natural step on the road to becoming a lucid dreamer? And, perhaps most of all, will this progress lead me to having lucid dreams as vivid, exciting, and real as they've been described to me?

Thanks a bunch.

(EDIT: sorry, I meant to put this in the For Beginners forum, I hope it's not too much of a problem)



Hello tsunderekatsu! (That is a difficult name to try and spell first thing in the morning.) Cool name though. Welcome to the forum! :)


I'm sorry to hear that the recall of your first experience with lucidity was not as expected. To answer your question about where the definition of lucid begins and ends? That is simply with knowing you are in a dream. And it sounds like you definitely were that. Even being able to catch and overcome your first false awakening which is not easy to do. (At least not for me.) Congratulations on that! And congrats on the dream itself.


As far as your recall of the experience. I can confirm for you that being lucid in a dream can be quite an incredible thing to experience. Actually can be much more intensely vivid and real than waking life. My first experiences with lucidity were pretty high level lucids and having very vivid recall of them. So I didn't feel the way you are feeling about your experience now. So it's difficult for me to relate to that. One thing that can make a dream so intense and vivid is the fact that you experience emotions differently there. Your every thought and emotion is incorporated into the environment. So you can feel the environment you are in in a different (more intense way) than you would in waking life.

As Empyreal Sakaki pointed out there are different levels of awareness you can have. Sometimes just kind of vaguely knowing you are dreaming without the full realization setting in. Other times feeling as aware and clear thinking as in waking life. I encourage you to keep at it.


My suggestion to you, is to make your next lucid dreaming goal to be before you go running off excitedly to play, stop and take note of your surroundings and your awareness. Think about how you are feeling while you are in the dream. Think about how aware you are or how aware you feel. Look around and examine everything that is near you. Pick things up and touch them. Turn items over in your hands. And just marvel at the vivid details of everything. Even the realism of how things feel in your hands. And you will see for yourself how amazing it is to be there in that place fully aware that it's not real. And yet at the same time being in disbelief of the fact that this kind of place seemingly so real exists inside of your mind.

There have been times when while lucid in a dream I have thought about the fact that I have another body sleeping somewhere in another world. And even lucid and knowing what is going on. That I am in a dream. The dream being so powerfully realistic. It's a weird concept to think about while I'm there. That I have another body someplace else laying in a bed sleeping lol. :)

Good Luck!

I think you question is fine being posted here in general lucid discussion. It could be in either this section or beginners I think. So don't worry about that. It is a general discussion about lucidity after all... :)


Thanks a bunch for your advice! I've thought a lot about this dream, and the way you articulated the nature of lucid dreaming was really helpful to me. There's nothing I want more than to experience the kind of vividness and the sense of "reality" that you and other lucid dreamers have described. I never knew that there could be "high" and "low"-level lucid dreams, or different levels of awareness. After thinking it through, I think what happened was exactly what you described: I was vaguely "aware" I was dreaming, but the reality of that didn't really sink in. That's why my dream self ran off and started to play instead of rationally analyzing anything. Knowing myself, if I were COMPLETELY aware, I would not be running around and playing right away - I'd be marveling at every little detail, exploring cautiously and analytically. I'd be excited, for sure, but not in the way I was in this dream.

I'm going to keep on striving to have a vivid lucid dream, since that's my ultimate goal: to have frequent lucid dreams that feel as real in experience as my waking life. I hope that I'll be able to see the fruits of my labor soon. As a side note, if you know of any good techniques or long-term courses to take that are proven effective in inducing high-level lucid dreams, I'd love to hear about them. But yeah, thanks again!
"The way things are isn't the way they have to be." - RTI

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Solaris_142
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Re: "False" lucid dream?

Postby Solaris_142 » 18 Sep 2018 20:37

tsunderekatsu wrote:I'm going to keep on striving to have a vivid lucid dream, since that's my ultimate goal: to have frequent lucid dreams that feel as real in experience as my waking life. I hope that I'll be able to see the fruits of my labor soon. As a side note, if you know of any good techniques or long-term courses to take that are proven effective in inducing high-level lucid dreams, I'd love to hear about them. But yeah, thanks again!


Glad I could help. :)

I'm not sure if there is an actually method for bringing higher awareness in to lucidity. I've had my share of low level lucidity. For example last night I was in dream driving my car. I was trying to find my way and the streets were getting confusing. And remember being aware that the reason the streets were getting confusing was because streets are not going to remain the same in dreams. But it was just kind of a vague awareness of that fact and then I forgot about it and continued on my way. It just happens sometimes.

Though Sunday night I had my first full blown lucid for a while. Felt like I had a pretty high level of lucidity in it. Though I didn't remember to look at my watch like I was planning to. But then the dream didn't last very long either so I didn't have much time to think about it. I was so in awe of what I was looking at the time.

I'm not sure if it makes any difference but when I do my awareness work I do a kind of meditation where I try to stay as aware as I can of as many different things as I can at once. While keeping my mind alert to any of those things I'm aware of as being dream like.

Literally everything. Smells, sounds, everything you can see. Every sense. the feel of cloths on the skin. Even the feel of my feet on the ground while I walk. It's amazing how many things are happening all the time that slip right through our awareness of it.

Other than that just try as I mentioned and make a goal for lucidity to pay attention to your awareness level and your situation. I think you will be quite amazed.
Previously known in other dreaming communities as Caradon.

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Ianmc5
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Re: "False" lucid dream?

Postby Ianmc5 » 24 Oct 2018 12:15

I had this same problem and while asleep I knew I was dreaming but I couldn’t remember what real life was like and everything was hazy
:o

starsofclay
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Re: "False" lucid dream?

Postby starsofclay » 30 Oct 2018 01:50

As I've heard and experienced, the dream world is like the phrase "as above, so below". If your awareness is low, or unstable, in waking life, then it will be low or unstable (sometimes high lucidity, sometimes low) in the dream life.

I hear meditation and concentration practices will help. Also visualisation practices.

In my experience, when you want to manifest something(ball of flame in your hand) , or make something happen, you have to visualize it being there. Sometimes looking away and back again works. But you have to visualize the object, and expect it to be there.

When wanting to make something happen, you visulize it happening, and expect it to. Doing a time skip with the expectation of it happening can work. You just skip to a time after the event you wish to happen takes place.


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