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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 22 Aug 2014 22:33
by nawick
Naw, I'm not out to prove anything to anyone.
People can write me off they they want, no big deal.
See, I am not trying to change anyone's Faith; I have enough to do just figuring out my reality in the time I have left.

However, on this forum people state their experiences and (one, an person, the reader) can believe them or not.
I believe people are innocent until proven guilty, so the burden of proof falls on the people who are saying they are lying.

I don't care if people believe the truth or not. If they choose to reject the synergy of this vast existence, that only makes me sad.
But denial is also their right. It can even be healthy, that's why there is memory repression.

But people should be allowed to reveal what happens to them without worrying about criticism or getting ganged up on.
That's what Forums are for.

Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 23 Aug 2014 00:27
by Summerlander
Nobody is accusing anyone of lying. We are not even denying that such experiences happen. We are only disputing their true nature. We merely point out that people either misinterpret what they perceive and jump the gun.

It works both ways when it comes to freedom of expression. It is not a crime to be critical or sceptical. You are allowed to report your experiences and express what you believe as much as we are allowed to comment on them based on what we think. And you should be grateful for the constructive criticism promulgated in these forums. So far in this thread we have raised awareness of certain subjects which are somewhat relevant to the topic and scientifically help to get a better understanding of what is happening and expand one's mind. Nothing wrong with that and offence is certainly not intended. No need to throw your toys out of the pram.

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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 11 Sep 2014 01:01
by jasmine2
It has always been puzzling to me that many fundamentalist Christians believe that anyone with psychic/intuitive abilities is practicing witch craft, when the Bible has numerous accounts of well respected individuals who had psychic and healing abilities, with the prime example being Jesus.

I get the impression that sometimes you want to use your psychic abilities in order to influence other people to do things which are to your advantage, maybe trying to fiddle with their free will. This can be dangerous ground. There is the old saying, "What goes around, comes around." If you push the boundary of ethical behavior when using psychic abilities, you open yourself up to unpredictable negative consequences.

Here are some of my favorite resources for wise advice about developing psychic abilities.

- Book - "Your Sixth Sense" - by Belleruth Naparstek
Belleruth is a psychotherapist who is also a leader in the field of treatment of PTSD, especially using guided imagery. She wrote the very insightful book - "Invisible Heroes"
- Also - YouTube videos - Belleruth Naparstek on PTSD - 7 episodes

- Book - "Second Sight" - by Judith Orloff
The author is a psychiatrist who struggled to come to terms with her own psychic abilities.
She has another popular book - "Emotional Freedom", and she has YouTube videos, and also has a very informative website, about dealing with emotions and developing intuitive abilities. -
- drjudithorloff.com

Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 12 Sep 2014 23:42
by passingthrutime
HAGART wrote:I'll jump in the fray and await a backlashing.

If it's all probability, then isn't it probable, given the billions of people on this planet, that some would have a precognitive dream? Even a one in a billion chance, means some have. There's nothing mystical or divine about it, it's just probability right. ;)

I have no faith, and I'm on no jury here, but if "precognition in dreams is more likely to be a coincidental illusion", doesn't that already admit that it happens from time to time, only with a low probability?

Even if it was all down to math, and probability, and coincidence than wouldn't those rare, seldom instance be prognitive by definition.

Instead of sweeping it all under the rug, we should be examining it with a magnifying glass. It may not be answered with math and physics, but instead with psychology, but there is still an answer somewhere, and many more questions yet to be answered.

You beat me to making this point
THX BTW no respect for logic from youtube, it's like a wiki edited by mADmen

Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 13 Sep 2014 01:14
by Summerlander
And Hagart's argument is flawed as his conclusion does not follow from the stated premise. Coincidental illusion does not equate with precognition. An illusion is something that has a misleading appearance. In this case, it may appear to be precognition but it isn't. Such coincidences are probable and do happen. Real precognition, on the other hand, is a dubious affair. It has never been demonstrated, there is no known physical mechanism behind such hypothesis, and it most certainly never really happens. Cock and bull! :-D

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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 13 Sep 2014 02:24
by HAGART
nesgirl wrote:If you have a Lucid Dream/dream that happens to link to the past, present, or future, it is a probability Lucid Dream. In other words, it happens because of math, not because of you.


This isn't against nesgirl, I was just using the quote as a talking point, and it's my attempt at a rebuttal to Summerlander as well.

I think all of reality can never be rationalized without mathematics and it's the only fundamental truth. The whole universe. And that even includes myself because I am composed of the very essence as well. IT'S ALL MATH. A concept in our minds, which is also composed of the universe.

There are also some very rational people, like myself, who entertain the notion that time is an illusion and that all past and future events co-exist simultaneously. And all quantum mechanics are probable.

I don't have a doctorate, or a P.H.D. and have no evidence from books to support my claim. This is just food for thought from some guy at a computer shooting the breeze for fun.

Perhaps we need to think outside the box, and realize all of reality wasn't what we thought it was, and we were all closed minded. We need to jump out and wake up, like a Jack-In-The-Box.... SURPRISE!

Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 13 Sep 2014 02:42
by HAGART
If it's true that we have no free will, and are just a complex product of Newton's Cradle, our whole bodies and minds being predictive, just bumbling around like moist robots, than wouldn't precognition be the norm?

The fact that it isn't is because we are blind and sleep walking though life. Perhaps it takes an altered state of consciousness to tap into a greater wealth of knowledge of pure math and probability, without preconceived ideas, desires, notions, and emotions to get it.

I myself haven't had a precognitive dream, and I'm just playing the role of Devil's Advocate for the purpose of a good discussion. I'm using probability and math as the very counterpoint to turn your arguments around and flip it inside out.

If I'm wrong, than it means we really do have free will after all. I don't see how we can have both, and it's a contradiction to me.

Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 13 Sep 2014 11:10
by Summerlander
This is a teleological argument...

We have no free will and we can make predictions about the future based on what we know at present and observation. But prediction is not the same as precognition. Science does a lot of the former. Predictions can be wrong too (they are not exactly seeing into the future) and theories can be revised.

We experience states of mind in a universe that is deterministic. Our bodies are merely biological armours for our genes - armours that have evolved to adapt to the environment. But evolution is blind and doesn't have a particular aim in the future. It cannot predict what's going to happen and how living organisms will change. Evolution is merely a gradual change brought about by natural pressures. It can make irreversible mistakes and biologists can think of ways in which nature could have done better.

So, the fact that we do NOT have free will does not necessarily demand the ability of precognition. If the universe at present was a living thing and could see into the future (and cared about the Earth) it would be able to see that alien invaders will "terraform" the planet by turning the atmosphere poisonous to all earthly life. Then it would do everything in its power to evolutionarily help all species so that they could survive the poison.

But evolution does not work like this. Natural selection does not prepare organisms for what's to come. There is no entelechy. The fact that the majority of the species that have existed on Earth have gone extinct is a testament to this. The first falling domino is clueless about the havoc it will wreak ahead of it.

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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 13 Sep 2014 12:24
by Summerlander
I understand what you are saying, mate, but even the human brain is too limited compared to the universe and all its uncertainties. I can assure you I am not shittin' ya! :-D

Cock-and-bull ideas aside, let me tell you about organisms in nature using unpredictable time in evolutionarily stable strategies in order to get ahead of competitors and survive. Unpredictability is a good weapon to use in wars of attrition.

If your rivals don't know how long you are willing to persist when persuing a goal, bearing in mind that giving up can also be beneficial in conserving energy, you are at an advantage. Until they suss out your rhythms. If whisker-flickering, for instance, is a sign that an animal is about to retreat, there would be a very simple winning strategy: if the opponent's whiskers flicker, wait a little while longer (regardless of your previous plans to give up earlier) and then continued to persue the goal unhindered. You will reap the benefits. I hope you know what I'm talking about.

The brain does not have everything sussed out. We know very little about the universe (even the local observable one which is only a tiny portion). Quantum theory works but has many interpretations - and there is an uncertainty principle. Computers can calculate way faster than our best minds. The brain cannot even be trusted to store information and its memory capacity is terrible. Every memory is a reconstruction of perceived events and a potential confabulation.

The brain is phenomenal but it is still a poor tool - even at perceiving the objective world. John Locke had a point.

Edit: Hagart, where did your post go? LOL!

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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Posted: 13 Sep 2014 12:34
by HAGART
Sorry about that.... I thought I should think more before I post, but I saved it and can paste it.

I was expecting a good argument, Summerlander.
But you were just ranting!

How would I describe what you just replied... how do I put it..... oh yea...
Summerlander wrote:Cock and bull! :-D


I'm just messing with ya ;) I love a good debate sometimes, and I know you do to, and just being argumentative and using your own quote back at you for fun. :D I must admit I like the, word "teleology", and had to look that up, and explains many debates here on this forum. That does explain my side, but it still doesn't mean it's absurd. You missed the mark, and didn't persuade me at all. I'm extremely open minded and really want someone to prove me wrong. Or even right for that matter.

If we have no free will (and that's my stand point to at the moment) then isn't is possible for a giant super computer to predict our every move? What else is comparable to that? The brain of course!

So it's not unfathomable that we can predict the future to some extent?

I hope my ideas resonate more than my wording, but isn't there at least a little bit of truth to what I'm saying? If not, I can take it, and it's all just words, and concepts and nothing is personal. 8-) You can slam a few jokes at me too if it's in good taste, because I admit I did the same!

But if I hear a definite answer from anyone I will change my mind at a heartbeat!

EDIT: What I wanted to condense it down to was that you are right about it being all teleological. And many debates on this forum are. I was going to re-phrase it in two lines:

You were ranting.
But I was rambling.
;)

I'll pick this up again when I'm back online. I'm not getting off that easy am I.... :D