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Re: Astral projection

Posted: 08 Dec 2011 04:45
by fuzzylogic
Snaggle wrote: but with each type of Out of body experience there's the OBE in the real world and an astral experience of other realm

Not sure what you mean. If you read carefully, most accounts don't talk about an OBE in the "real world". If you take a look at the accounts, you will find that they often describe subtle differences between the physical and the OBE space: your wallpaper or carpeting might be be different, furniture could be in different locations, and perhaps a window will be in a different spot. So the environment is very close, your friends will still be there, but you'll be seeing a non-physical version of them in an environment slightly less physical then the "real" world. It is apparently at a slightly higher "vibrational frequency".

For example- and this is really confusing,,, when you OBE and look down at yourself lying in the bed sleeping, I think the story goes that you are not looking at a physical body but a very similar non-physical representation of it, lying on a very similar representation of the bed.

The thinking is that there are a range of realms that exist and at increasingly higher vibrational levels which have decreasing similarity to the physical, and you can experience these realms in various states of consciousness. None of them are the same as physical. The physical is often described by witnesses as more "heavy" and unchangeable, whereas non-physical is "lighter" and more changeable as frequency increases.

Whether NDE take place in the physical world isn't made explicitly clear in what I've read. I'm assuming that like OBE, they take place in a plane very close to physical but perhaps not the same.

Actually some theorise that dreams take place in a realm as well, and not just in your brain.

I know it's confusing but that's how it is described in the accounts. I haven't had an NDE (hope I never do) but working on OBE, so maybe I'll have some first hand experience to share at some point.

In terms of "verifiable elements"- there have been examples of cases of verifiable data being experienced in OBE as well as NDE scenarios. Not sure what you mean about "no real value".

Of course this strangeness is one reason why people shun all of this. In my mind however, it isn't much more strange than quantum theory, but at least in this case there are many very similar first hand accounts describing what it is like.

Re: Astral projection

Posted: 09 Dec 2011 14:17
by Snaggle
Firstly, Fuzzylogic, a lot of what are called OBE are not that at all. OBE occurring during sleep or out of the sleep paralysis experience have a high chance of being dreams even if NDE and direct OBE are exactly what they seem to be, secondly the multiple points of consciousness experience is usually lumped in with OBE even though it's not an OBE. A proper OBE being: the experience of leaving the body; the experience of the world and a return to ones body.

Some NDE don't have OBE and are just an experience of entering the astral afterlife world. These experiences of the afterlife don't have elements that can be verified and different individuals don't experience the same "world" implying strongly that that world is a dream world. It's interesting that those NDE with an OBE do involve a return to the body. My opinion being that the the OBE is real, but that people can move out of the OBE into an out of body dream and that their decision to return is actually the point at which they wake up and then end the OBE by returning to their bodies.

None of the completely unverifiable information from that astral world should be trusted whether coming from a normal OBE with an astral experience or NDE with an astral experience should be trusted as real in anyway. This is even more true of OBE or astral experiences coming out of sleep, e.g. Edgar Cayce's dream readings. They've published all of them and the complete readings are full of so many factual errors that they actually have surpassed the bible for containing things that can't be. You seem willing to spin beliefs that really don't have any support into "facts", e.g. your belief that the spirit is the source of health or illness, which you seem to base on these astral accounts.

Re: Astral projection

Posted: 09 Dec 2011 21:32
by Peter
I would say that in over a hundred OBE experiances over the years the only one that had a complete reality attached to it was when I was around 15 and a car pulled out on me and I hit the car and bashed the winscreen and ended up on the bonnett.
In instants of impact I was above my bike viewing the scene and returned to my body when I hit the screen.

All the rest are either stand alone exits in afternoon naps and may or may not end up in a dream. ( I find the daylight screws up opening eyes and the LD need to be pure feeling and internal images or I will wake up) or OBE in the early hours and part of a WILD LD entry


Re: Astral projection

Posted: 09 Dec 2011 22:52
by fuzzylogic
Snaggle wrote:You seem willing to spin beliefs that really don't have any support into "facts", e.g. your belief that the spirit is the source of health or illness, which you seem to base on these astral accounts.

Let's get a couple things straight-
1- I'm not spinning anything. You had a couple things to say (that honestly I still don't follow) and I tried to explain my understanding of these phenomenon based on my research. If you have a well thought out picture of how the non-physical space works that suits you, then good for you.

2- Where do you get the impression that I believe "the spirit is the source of health and wellness"?

I have no problem discussing these things but I would ask that you not invent my intentions to somehow suit your purposes nor invent beliefs that I may or may not have.

Re: Astral projection

Posted: 11 Dec 2011 21:54
by Snaggle
[quote=Fuzzylogic]As I've said earlier in the thread, I think all of these 'paranormal' phenomenon that we've touched on (LD, OBE, NDE, life between life,,,) aren't individual isolated quirks of nature. I think they represent a spectrum of experiences in one common spiritual realm where we are all interconnected in a fundamental way.

Here is a link to an amazing NDE experience that goes to the core of what I think lies behind everything in what I refer as the "non-physical".

I think LD is potentially what we experience as we dip our toe into the water, and the further we wade into this non-physical space, the more complete and rich and amazing the whole experience becomes.

I watched all three of the videos. There is some repetition but some new info in each.[/quote]

Fuzzylogic sorry for offending you. I got the idea that you think "the spirit is the source of illness" by going to that site and watching the videos associated with it.

Re: Astral projection

Posted: 11 Dec 2011 23:54
by fuzzylogic
Nope. Haven't reached that conclusion.

However what I DID find in the videos was an great example of at least OBE and possibly NDE.

The extraordinary healing was interesting and very notable, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that spirituality is somehow the key to health and wellness.