Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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HAGART
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby HAGART » 22 Aug 2014 05:57

I'll jump in the fray and await a backlashing.

If it's all probability, then isn't it probable, given the billions of people on this planet, that some would have a precognitive dream? Even a one in a billion chance, means some have. There's nothing mystical or divine about it, it's just probability right. ;)

I have no faith, and I'm on no jury here, but if "precognition in dreams is more likely to be a coincidental illusion", doesn't that already admit that it happens from time to time, only with a low probability?

Even if it was all down to math, and probability, and coincidence than wouldn't those rare, seldom instances still be precognitive by its very definition?

Everyone knows about Deja View. I only had it a few times in the course of my life, so it's a very low probability, and yet, everyone across all cultures and creeds knows it exists with different names. Why? Because it's a real phenomenon, although not fully explained.

Instead of sweeping it all under the rug, we should be examining it with a magnifying glass. It may not be answered with math and physics, but instead with psychology, but there is still an answer somewhere, and many more questions yet to be answered.

(That wasn't so bad and I think my back should be spared from the lashings!) ;) :mrgreen:
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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nawick
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby nawick » 22 Aug 2014 07:22

Precog dreams happen all the time. But those who have never had them insist they are impossible. Most likely just negative thinking. If someone "Knows" something is impossible, they will never accept it and just write it off as coincidence. Or they ask for "Scientific Proof", but even if you show them your dream journal they will probably say you just are lying. (Due dalliance falls on them. Have them "prove" that you are wrong.)
(Good thing bumblebees don't know that Jacob Ackeret prove they could not fly)
You are not crazy. DONT listen to people who are so closed minded that they refuse to consider anything that doesn't fit in their belief system.

"I can't believe that!" said Alice.
"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes."
Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
"If you believe that you can or if you believe that you can't - you are right." - Henry Ford.

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HAGART
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby HAGART » 22 Aug 2014 09:21

I'm on both sides, and still don't have proof of either one.
Kailyn.Spears is long gone, and we all hijacked this thread.
We should start a new one so we can all go round in circles and argue there instead.

But I stand by what I said earlier, and it changes the whole definition of 'precognitive'. So what if it's by chance, it was still predictive of future events, and our pathetic ego-self-identity is just a tip of an iceberg of knowledge that few realize. With all that subliminal knowledge we have 'upstairs', in the attic of our minds, why can't we foretell future events like the weather. It's just cause and effect after all.

I'm trying to say that it's all math, and that's why it IS possible!
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Summerlander » 22 Aug 2014 11:59

Hagart, when you quoted me above you ommitted a very crucial word: ostensible. In other words we interpret such experiences as precognitive but they are nothing but coincidences. You won't know it has "predicted" something until it happens.

People also overlook the fact that the waking mind is able to make guesses about the future based on past experience, perception, and intelligence. So why not the dreaming mind? If we didn't we wouldn't have survived as a species. Guessing and then happening to be right, whether this is done consciously or unconsciously (sleeping or awake), isn't paranormally predicting the future.

And those who say only the people who haven't experienced it deem it impossible are talking out of their arse. I've experienced an apparent precog once (even opened a topic about it here and on OBE4U) and yet I don't jump the gun and say precognition is real because of it. The renowned researcher Susan Blackmore has had all sorts of experiences and she remains sceptical.

Dejavus are another phenomenon which has been studied and found to be, more likely than not because the mundane has a tendency to have more explanatory power, a glitch in the brain when mnemonic info is relayed twice to consciousness and hence why the familiarity effect. Isn't it curious that we say, "I think I've been here before" and yet we still have a feeling of misplacement.

In all these phenomena, it is typical for people to let their imaginations run wild as they are fuelled by wishful thinking. Typical for science to be ignored because it is convenient for self-interest.

Once again, I will restate: those who say precognition is real have failed to demonstrate its veracity. Therefore, the sceptic has nothing to disprove or debunk. (Refer to my court analogy above if your ratiocination needs aid.)

Nobody is "sweeping anything under the rug." This is nonsense. These phenomena are studied and so far there is no evidence of anything paranormal going on. In fact, what we have seen is that such ILLUSORY or COINCIDENTAL occurrences are not surprising at all. Like I said, statistically, they should occur. They just aren't what fantasists think they are.

Case closed. Come back when you have compelling evidence that we can test.:-/

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Karin
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Karin » 22 Aug 2014 12:17

HAGART wrote:I'm on both sides, and still don't have proof of either one.
...
But I stand by what I said earlier, and it changes the whole definition of 'precognitive'. So what if it's by chance, it was still predictive of future events, and our pathetic ego-self-identity is just a tip of an iceberg of knowledge that few realize. With all that subliminal knowledge we have 'upstairs', in the attic of our minds, why can't we foretell future events like the weather. It's just cause and effect after all.


I agree with you on the above, HAGART! It's funny, I use the same imagery: I also often think of us humans as the tiny tip of a large iceberg.

I can also add the following speculation that I like to bend my mind with:

The giant part of us that is 'upstairs', as you say, might be outside the space-time continuum where the pathetic 'tip-of-the-iceberg' resides. So from the perspective of the 'upstairs being', everything and all times might be accessible: just probe here and there when needed, and send 'a message' down to the pathetic 'tip-of-the-iceberg' who's having the physical experience, even though it often isn't even listening.

Some talk about the ego-self stuck in 3D space-time as a 'biological deep-diving suit' to have a very focused experience of perceiving one tiny slice of the 3D space-time through the five senses, while the larger self is like a 'stream of consciousness' outside from it, including all of it. And by space-time continuum, it is not just one set of historical happening, but a gazillion of parallel ones with tons of different potentials, including past, present and future. Like the ultimate video game.

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Summerlander
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Summerlander » 22 Aug 2014 12:25

Outside space-time? what does that even mean? I'll tell you what doesn't occupy any space and time: nothing. Something that doesn't occupy any space is nowhere. Something that doesn't occupy any time hasn't even begun any kind of duration.

Conclusion: anything outside (whatever this means in this context) space-time does not exist.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Karin
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Karin » 22 Aug 2014 15:12

Summerlander wrote:... Conclusion: anything outside (whatever this means in this context) space-time does not exist.


I admire your certainty, Summerlander.

If you are interested, below are some references about quantum non-locality, where 'something' seems to be happening outside space-time.

The below is in no way intended to support my wild speculation above, I hate to highjack quantum science to support woo-woo ideas. But since you seem so convinced nothing exists beyond space-time, and you like science and scientific evidence, maybe you'll find the below intriguing.

http://www.quantumphil.org/

"The nonlocal correlations cannot be explained by any history in spacetime, they come from outside spacetime. ... The single-photon space-like antibunching experiment (proposed 2010 and completed 2012) demonstrates that the most fundamental principle ruling the material world, the conservation of energy, requires nonlocal coordination of detection outcomes, i.e., non-material agency from outside space-time."

And here are the references, all peer-reviewed published in physics journals, some of them available for free on-line:

http://www.quantumphil.org/publications.htm

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Summerlander
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Summerlander » 22 Aug 2014 17:58

I've looked at quantum mechanics. I have books on it. Like you said about "nonlocality," it SEEMS. I'm not jumping to conclusions based on what seems, especially when the theories within the field of quantum physics are numerous. We know little to make tall assumptions. All we know about quantum theory is that in practice it works and it needn't the suggestion of a supernatural order at work.

I could also tell you about complex "gravitational well" theories within the cosmos where nonlocality needn't enter the equation. (And quantum gravity is something we know very little about.) They are relational theories that certainly exclude suggestions of agents lying outside space-time (a proposition which makes no sense to me). If we are talking about a multiverse that influences individual universes, then we are still talking about the fabric of reality as a whole, something involving space-time (however multidimensional it may be). Nothing external and supernatural.

The issue remains. If you are going to claim that quantum mechanics enables the reality of precognitive dreams, show us HOW. From where I stand, even though there is superposition, entanglement, wave-particle duality, and uncertainty on a small scale, things get pretty restricted the larger you get.

I'm not talking out of my arse here and I wouldn't even if I hadn't read about quantum theory. It is very simple: show the sceptics something substantial that can be tested. Something of a nitty-gritty nature open to falsifiability. Then you might sway them.

The argument from interpreting dreams as you see them is simply moot.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Karin
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby Karin » 22 Aug 2014 19:06

Read my post again, Summerlander. I am not claiming quantum physics support precognition, I was just commenting on your statement that nothing exists beyond space-time.

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LucidityMaster
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Re: Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Postby LucidityMaster » 22 Aug 2014 21:47

Hey Nawick,

Can you please scientifically demonstrate how bi-products of the evolution of sleep and consciousness with no adaptive function can predict the future?

After all, that's what dreams likely are, probably having no adaptive function.

Have you heard of Mark Solms' research on brain injured patients?

Patients with an injury to a certain area of the brain might experience a permanent loss of dreaming.

This phenomenon is called dream cessation.

But, Nawick, you probably didn't bother to research the subject.


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