Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 13 Sep 2014 00:24

I didn't say Mormonism sanctions underage marriages. I said its founder was an unscrupulous man who pretended to be some kind of Messiah and took advantage of many men, women, and children who were all gullible or vulnerable to his chicanery.

I also think you are the one who is getting confused, my dear. Latter-day Saints = Mormon. And dark-skinned people were considered to be inferior by early Mormonism too. Dark skin meant dirty soul.

I also did not say religious people are not serious about politics. In fact, they can be pretty good at creating their own political correctness to further their agenda. In America, an officially atheist president is unheard of. The founders were either deists or agnostics. I would also add that capital punishment is no form of justice either, only a means for revenge. The reasons why capital punishment is unjust and immoral are highlighted in the "free will" topic. I have also not judged you. I merely stated facts about people like Joseph Smith, Sarah Palin, and Mitt Romney. This last individual is the member of a Christian faction that has practically registered the names of Jewish victims who perished in the Holocaust as LDS's in order to make up numbers and apparently, according to the creed, save their souls. To Mormons, the Yazidis who perish in Iraq are, just as the Muslims describe them, unbelievers. They pray to the wrong god and are thus in need of salvation. (This is why I said I could picture Romney praying for their souls.)
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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 13 Sep 2014 01:06

I was referring to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. He was a conman who was also arrested prior to his so-called divine "revelation" and he took advantage of many women and girls sexually.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 13 Sep 2014 01:58

nesgirl, Joseph Smith had several wives and he had initiated relationships with many of them when they were only young teenagers. Fanny Algiers served him when she was 16 and never actually married him. Another conquest who married him (like many others besides his official wife) was Flora Woodworth. Then we have his youngest wife Helen Mar Kimball, who was only 14 at the time and whom he ordered to marry him or she'd undergo divine punishment.

Authors like Jon Krakauer have delved into the history of Mormonism and recorded what modern Mormon chieftains would not want you to hear. Books like "Under The Banner of Heaven" have all the gory details.

I'm only going to say it one more time: the man I am talking about is Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism and self-proclaimed prophet. (No wonder he aspired to be like Prophet Muhammad, another divine paedophile who had a nine-year-old wife.)

There is no smoke without fire. It's all good to take someone's word for it, like say, Bill Clinton. But then again, Mr. Clinton did lie (semen found on Lewinski's dress) and then we have Paula Jones, Juanita, and a few others who recount uncannily similar stories of rape.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 13 Sep 2014 09:46

Shorter lifespans? This was at the time of the Great Awakening, many men and women were already living as we do today. They also had centenarians.

A child is not ready to consent to sex, therefore, it was, in the least, statutory rape. He also threatened them with his big imaginary Mafia boss in the sky if they didn't comply. It was wrong, nesgirl. Men of the Enlightenment who already existed could see this too.

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

Snaggle
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Snaggle » 15 Sep 2014 06:15

Obama is an idiot anyway, in case you haven't noticed by now. They should have gone with Sarah Palin back in 2008 for Vice President, but the citizens didn't want a FEMALE running for office. I knew he was an idiot from the start. Also they re-elected him again because they didn't want a religious man running for office. Mt Romney was actually very straight and upfront, I thought he would have made a better president, and unlike most religious men, he wasn't out blabbing his religion, forcing it on others, or showing it off, he was actually more serious about his job, and said what he was going to do in helping aid the other countries (I believe if Romney were elected, he would have actually done something about the Iraqi crisis, religious or not). I hope there are others very serious about their jobs, and no I don't care about their personal life (unless they are treating others horribly), if they are serious enough to take care of this country and the others.
I am hoping that next year in America when they hold their election, there is actually a President chosen that will have the knowledge enough to help aid the other countries in this situation.


If Obama really was serving America we could call him an idiot, but he's serving the NWO not America and will be collecting his 100 to 200 million dollars in bribe money once out of office. As for Sara people don't vote for the vice president. Mc Cain was an air head neocon and everyone was sick of neocons and Obama lied about not being one in the first election. Romney lost because Obama bribed people and only started austerity programs after winning re-election. One can hardly go for a walk down the streets of America with out being invited to church or having a Christian try to win you for Christ, so electing someone of "faith" is not something the average America is opposed to. If you ever come to America remember don't feed the grizzly bears, don't try and pet the cougars and don't let the Christians talk about Jesus!

Mormons are not considered Christians by Christians and are also the most obnoxious of them to non-Christians. They prowl the streets in pairs dressed in suits and knock on doors trying to convert people - we turned off the lights and pretended not to be home if we spotted them first. Romney could not talk about his religion and have anyone believe he won the republican nomination.

As for his character he was invested in a Goldman Sachs white slavery investment fund - why is not he and everyone at Goldman Sachs in prison like they belong to be! Here's how he made his fortune warning contains some adult language http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBH7a_dWJ5c Romney is anything but wholesome. He was also another Neocon.




Snaggle is actually pretty angry at me right now, because I told him to treat women like me with respect, saying that women are humans and deserve to be treated as such. Which is why you haven't been seeing much of him or the others lately. Actually you don't see too much of gender equality in religions either, in case you haven't noticed.


Nesgirl I'm not angry with you and found your comment silly. I said that dream girls are too loose and that the real ones are better. I accept that you're an asexual and like a lesbian or married woman have no sexual interest in you.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 15 Sep 2014 23:15

You both make valid points. Let's avoid conflict here. nesgirl, can you list reasons why the world should be anti-romantic? Snaggle, can you recount personal experiences with Mormons (good and bad)?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 17 Sep 2014 01:43

Interesting ideology. But it will only work once we become sufficiently advanced to be able to make such changes. Genetic-engineering is how we'd go about it, I'd imagine. But would we really want to get rid of sexual urges. Is sexuality the real problem? Or psychopathy? By manipulating the gene pool we could eradicate human evil and asexuals could still co-exist with those of us who are good and civil despite sexual urges. Not every sexual person wants to sexually molest others. As for romance, it isn't something that everyone follows. I think people should be free to express themselves. If romance is banned, what happens to art?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 17 Sep 2014 02:49

I concede that pornography can be a bad influence on otherwise good people. But I have sexual urges and I don't dream about raping or molesting anyone. I cannot speak for everyone,of course, because we are treading on subjective grounds. If I feel the need to sexually satisfy myself, I will either have consensual sex with my wife or masturbate (like many do). And then there is lucid dreaming where I would rather copulate with a dream character that emulates sexual attraction for me. It has to me mutual. Reciprocal.

You may be a cynic and disbelieve me, but, if you could be sure that I am not perverted in any way despite my natural urges, and that there are many like me that are unlikely to fall quarry to psychopathy, would that sway you in any way into accepting, in the least, the preservation of the good "sexual genes" and perhaps a little tolerance of those romantics who do not descriminate against those who feel different?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 17 Sep 2014 19:24

There is definitely no guarantee of anything, that's for sure. What about virtual realities fulfilling sexual fantasies and urges as a solution as opposed to castration en masse?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 17 Sep 2014 20:56

Oh, come on, nesgirl. Think about what you are saying. It is extremely right wing... :shock:

Major surgeries can bring about hormonal changes and ultimately affect one's mind. (I'm assuming you are talking about the Hippocratic oath.) You can see then why they would refuse certain procedures and it is their right. :geek:

Don't you find your approach slightly totalitarian when it comes to depriving people of fantasies? You cannot tell people what to think and how to feel. This is why Kim Jong-un and his brand of Stalinism isn't very popular on the world stage. If what sexuals indulge in isn't harming anyone - like watching porn and engaging in solipsistic virtual sex (the latter can be regarded as upgraded onanism - and if they prove themselves to be civil in society, then who are you to deprive them of their private freedom? Do you see where I'm coming from?

You are accusing people of thought crime when they can't help what they feel and think. I'm proposing realistic indulgences without making anyone feel inappropriate, criminal, guilty, or freakish. I don't wish to dictate to those who are just being their harmless selves. I'm offering ways in which they can still preserve their rights to freedom. So I really don't see what is so wrong with sexually or even romance when it appears to work. You said it yourself in your statistics that not all such relationships fall so I don't think you are really getting to the root of the problem when it comes to sexual deviants.

If you are a leader (for the sake of argument) and you just ban certain modes of behaviour plus ways of thinking because they are repulsive in your mind or contradictory against your asexual nature, you are practically denying those who differ from you their very nature. Let's face it, we are not sufficiently advanced to genetically engineer an alternative. What you propose is a form of fascism, what many would consider an Orwellian dystopia. I don't like religion but if I was a leader I would not ban such beliefs. I would merely promote education and raise awareness of facts. Peope are still entitled to worship Yahweh in the privacy of their homes and minds - even express such beliefs in public - as long as they don't force others to think as they do (by telling them they need to be "saved") or brainwash children by dishonestly passing their beliefs off as truisms.

In essence, your words convey an iron fist which is not that dissimilar to Saddam Hussein's during Ba'athist Iraq. You are telling even the sensible ones how they should be living their lives. This is akin to the Islamic state's ideology which suppresses sexual urges in young suicide bombers so that they are more eager to die for Allah and reach heavenly virgins as quickly as possible.

Do you see why your approach is doomed to fail and there are better futuristic alternatives? We don't have to completely erase what makes us generally human. Your ideology strikes me as being analogous to this: "My holy book says homosexuals are an abomination therefore they should not get married by law because I believe in it." Or: "I'm on a strict diet therefore you can't eat pork, ice cream and chocolate..." :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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