Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 12 Nov 2014 01:14

"I can indeed say that my representations follow one another; but this is only to say that we are conscious of them as in a time-sequence, that is, in conformity with the form of inner sense."

- Immanuel Kant, "Critique of Pure Reason"

"My hearing what you say is dependent on your saying it within earshot while I am awake, which pretty much guarantees that I hear it. My understanding what you say is dependent on many things, but not, it seems, on any identifiable elements of internal phenomenology; no conscious experience will guarantee that I have understood you, or misunderstood you."

- Daniel Dennett, "Consciousness Explained"

Perhaps you did dream or were lost in thought during that period but the experience just didn't stick in your memory. Probably not enough conscious impact. It is possible be dreaming and not know it (in fact more common than lucid dreaming). It is also possible to be lost in thoughtand not realise it (as Sam Harris pointed out when one mediates).

It is also possible to confabulate and not realise it when you don't remember so well. This gives rise to false memories which can lead you to believe that you remember something really well.

"The astronomer's rule of thumb: if you don't right it down, it didn't happen."

- Clifford Stoll, "The Cucko's Egg"

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 12 Nov 2014 22:45

Yeah, I’ve heard the story, nesgirl. Many times. I not going to say anything at all about it anymore--you’ll just play the victim card yet again.

Summerlander wrote:Iran has just signed a deal with Russia for two new nuclear reactors. Meanwhile, Putin and a gullible Obama exchange views about Syria and Iraq. I wonder if the Russian president cared to mention the reasons behind intimidating peripheral nations with airforce and why he's already downed a few aircraft carrying innocent civillians. It is a cold war and yet people seem to think that two opposing presidents talking for 20 minutes somehow constitutes progress of some sort. Germany is shitting itself about placing sanctions against the Russian Federation, and given the latter's aggression, so they should. There is no reasoning with such psychopath.

It's also the tenth anniversary of the death of the infamous Yasser Arafat. A Palestinian demonstrator has already been shot dead by Israeli forces in Hebron, West Bank, amid tensions over Jerusalem's holy site. The Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas accused Israel of trying to provoke a religious war. (Can you believe that in this day and age people fight over where to pray and what ideas should be persued without evidence or reason?)


It’s all insanity. History is just one long cluster-fuck. Nothing but disorder, to my mind.
Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 12 Nov 2014 23:13

I didn't even say anything and you still got pissed and started insulting me. Haha. Not sure what I should do with you anymore, nesgirl.

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Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 13 Nov 2014 12:27

You have got to criticize misinformed, dangerous ideas, nesgirl, no matter who thought them up. With your enlightened reasoning, if a totalitarian regime came into being and started executing innocents en masse, but the person who gave the order was somehow handicapped, there is no reason to criticize or resist him. False. Ideas should stand for themselves, but indeed there are individuals who stand for those ideas. When I attack an idea, I am attacking an idea, not an individual. This is a simple lesson.

I feel that if Russia ever did decide to throw down and nuke the USA, they would quickly find most of their country vaporized to radioactive silt by either the other superpowers of the world or America's own last-minute warhead launches. And we'd have the biggest atrocity of mankind enacted in a tight 24 hours--with all the following generations doomed to live in constant fear of getting poisoned by the global fallout.
I'm fairly certain that stumbling upon the Power of the Atom will prove to be the end of mankind. To me it seems inevitable. We're like tense gunslingers in a Mexican standoff; eventually someone's going to start shooting, and after that, everyone's dead.

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Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 14 Nov 2014 00:44

nesgirl wrote:I am not saying these handicapped people shouldn't be punished and they have been in fact.


I do not think that handicapped people or any other creature or human on the face of the planet should be punished for anything. I don’t believe in retribution. It’s nonsensical, unscientific, and irrational.

nesgirl wrote:However I was not referring the Islamic state, nor do I believe they are handicapped.


I know. I did not misunderstand you. Neither did I myself reference the Islamic State. I’m not sure where this came from.

nesgirl wrote:I was researching a religious leader from the 1800s after reading an article on yahoo, and because in the 1800s those crimes and actions were NOT exactly ones a criminal would come up with all on their own, and his actions, thoughts, and criminal activity seemed to be very similar many of the severely bipolar patients my father interviewed in prison and in his office, I have huge reason to believe he himself was in fact suffered from a very serious case of bipolar, which is why he seemed so horrible to most people. One of the biggest mistakes that most of these severely bipolar people make is not getting the assistance they need, or the medications they need, however back in the time that religious leader was in, they didn't have that. Also the asylums back then were so severely cruel back then, I do not blame him at all for not wanting to be locked in one. In the end, he did receive Capital Punishment instead, which for a mentally handicapped person who cannot control their actions, is probably the most humane thing, because the Asylums and the prisons are way too cruel to them (fate worse than death). Also I have been studying different religious leaders as well, and I have reasons to believe some of them might have had handicaps of their own as well (If Muhammad married a young girl, obviously there would have had to have been a mental disorder in there, because only a handicapped person would find nothing wrong with that, believe me. I've even heard some stories from some of the handicapped from working with them myself about children getting married. Notice any evidence right in what I am saying?)


I essentially agree with everything you said here. Although, I would like to perhaps elaborate, especially on the point you made about Muhammad being with a young girl. I think all human beings are fundamentally insane. There are also some minor superficial insanities, too. It’s nearly impossible to grow up in and live in this screwed up world without developing a few psychological haywires. It may be a little thing here, a little thing there, but we all have something wrong with us, I posit. Some have bigger problems than others.

Artists and religious leaders share one thing in common, I think: They indulge in and take advantage of that common subconscious insanity we humans have. :D

nesgirl wrote:And by the way, I honestly doubt Islam suffers from being handicapped.


I never said that. And I don’t think that. I do, however, think that Islamists have extremely unhealthy sexual repressions, and it certainly shows in their “holy” books. (72 virgins.)

nesgirl wrote:I think they are just a pure sociopathic community. Only 1-5% of the community even has a disability to begin with (physical or mental). So the odds of a whole country having a disability is very unlikely. As far as Bin Laden, Saddam, or Hitler having any of those, that is highly unlikely as well. Because usually the mentally handicapped have a weakness in the ability to fully reason too well, will not very easily forgive someone who insulted them, and have to rely on scientific and mathematical facts to back them up, they usually would struggle to be able to have a career in politics or commanding anything to begin with. If someone severely mental actually leads a group, they will nearly always have very unusual ideas and rules you will have never imagined before (no caffeine, being drug and alcohol free, and being mostly vegetarian for example), and you may find them getting in serious trouble with the law or severely persecuted.


Interesting observation I made about this: You know that illegalizing caffeine is outrageous and silly, but not illegalizing procreation. Just an interesting observation about yourself.

nesgirl wrote:Maybe my story of me being the last female and there being one last man might very well happen if that happens. And I am one of very few who could live in a basement happily for a very long time in isolation, so that is possible. Because I'll just hide in the basement while it all happens.
And if that happens, my choice will be to quickly learn to DNA clone from my DNA and the guy's, or for the human population to face complete extinction. Since I am anti-romantic, he and I would keep our personal space. If he wants to help, fine, but if he doesn't, that's fine too. If he is a pervert, I'll tie him up, and sent him to Antarctica.


Perhaps, with the fate of humanity in your hands, you will be able to overlook your own egocentrism and maybe consider artificial insemination? :D
Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 15 Nov 2014 02:52

nesgirl wrote:They do need to be punished or stopped if they killing the innocent.


Stopped, yes. Punished needlessly? No. Retribution is a primitive, illogical fallacy at best, in the absence of free will. And, if I remember, you accept the nonexistence of free will.
If you have a convicted serial killer (who murdered tens of innocent people) in chains in front of you, it would be tremendously tempting to stomp his face in. But there is no rational reasoning behind it. Just lock him in a cell disgustedly and throw away the key. Only because he is a danger to society and a public enemy.
Do you see my reasoning? It's totally sound, in my opinion. If you disagree, it's only because you don't understand.

nesgirl wrote:Unlike the other designers, I tend to break the 4th wall in my designs too often, letting people know that the fantasy they are in is in fact another reality and isn't real.


Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. It's an interesting approach to art, and I generally enjoy it because it's unconventional and intriguing and even humorous.

nesgirl wrote:Going through the bloody process of finding the egg after releasing it from my body is a huge pain and there is more than the egg that is released (ever read about what happens to the female when she releases unfertilized eggs?), so finding it within that mess would be really difficult. If I did find it without damaging it, then fine, you could go on ahead and see what you could do with it within the test tube. However if that didn't work, then good luck (and there wouldn't be that option, since the specimens would be practically destroyed with the Nuclear explosions)!! My body isn't up for disgusting bodily fluids. The guy is not going to touch me. And like I was about to say, if I learned to DNA clone, I could repopulate the earth much faster than I could give birth, and without the risk of death. With cloning, I could probably create 100 people using the guy's and my DNA. Those clones with our knowledge could create 100 more, and the process would continue.


Haha. I just think it's funny how you would be willing to let all of humanity die just because you're a little grossed out about body fluids. Let me say this: if the fate of humanity was in my hands, there would be absolutely nothing I wouldn't do. I would eat an entire human being, if that's what it took, disgusting bodily fluids and all.

By the way, I bet you really like "Alien" ;)

Good thing this would never happen anyway. If all of humanity was wiped out via nuclear warfare except you and some other guy, there would be so much high-concentrated radiation that you'd both be dead in sixty seconds. :D

Little anecdote: if a nuclear shoot-out ever went down and we plunged our foolish selves into apocalypse, humanity would not be wiped out. Because there are actually several bunkers around the world (I forget where they all are, but I know that one of them is stationed somewhere in Antarctica) stocked with plenty of energy, supplies, and nearly every seedling for most ecosystemically-important plants. Humans would just hunker down there for a while, tending the station and such. The survivors would probably go crazy eventually though. Or maybe one of them would go crazy one day and shoot all the others. :) It'd be a fun dark science fiction story.
Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 15 Nov 2014 15:44

"As for as the non-existence..."

Yeah. I'll never reject an idea simply because it makes me uncomfortable. At least we can enjoy the illusion of having free will.

"I never said..."

Wow, I guess I really have to point this out to you because you can't figure it out:
No, you wouldn't be able to clone. You wouldn't have the expertise and even if you did you wouldn't be able to make it to a science laboratory that is properly equipped.

Cannibalism: what I said was that if that was what was required, I would do it. There would be nothing I wouldn't do for the perpetuation of humanity. It's pretty shocking and revealing that there are things you wouldn't do.

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Well said.

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Summerlander
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby Summerlander » 17 Nov 2014 14:41

You may say that about cannibalism now, nesgirl, but would that view survive if you were starving? This is where imagination can help. I'm not saying you would commit murder in order to feed but you would probably be tempted to eat someone who had already died...

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 17 Nov 2014 22:00

The entire world is a nuclear, irradiated winterland, nesgirl. You're missing the point and meaning of a hypothetical.

This calls to mind a scene from one of my favorite novels: "The Stand" by Stephen King. Basically, 99.9% of the population is swiftly wiped out by a superflu nicknamed "Captain Trips." A choice few people have the genetic mutation that makes them totally immune. One of the characters (who is genetically immune) is in a small state penitentiary when the flu comes through. After a week or so, everyone in the prison (wardens and prisoners) is either dead or has fled, leaving the character behind in the jail cell. Weeks pass. There's only the silence. He has tried literally everything he can think of to break out of the cell, but nothing has worked.
He slowly starts to starve to death.
A dead, rotting body is in the jail cell just adjacent to his, and he thinks that it is easily within reach. As the torturous days lug by, that pallid, melted forearm starts to look extremely delicious...
(If I recall, Randall Flagg--the main antagonist of the novel--finds him and liberates him before he actually starts eating people.)
But that's the point of the hypothetical. IF there was no other option, WOULD you do it?

I certainly would. The idea sounds repulsive to the utmost degree at the moment, but I know the nature of starvation and human depravity enough to know that that would not be an obstacle for me if I was genuinely starving to death.
Well said.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Religion and Politics: Iraqi Crisis

Postby deschainXIX » 17 Nov 2014 23:23

Get ready for yet another of my characteristically dark comments...

The salinity of blood plasma and lymph is very high, as the vast majority of sodium is stored in such fluids. If you've ever tasted blood, you would be familiar with its salty, alkaline taste. That is why. So, potentially, that could be an option for you...

Honestly, if I was in the predicament portrayed in that scene, I would try to find a way to kill myself before the pain of starvation set in, tempting me to endure the horrors of consuming a human being. My will to live is not exactly soaring.

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Well said.


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