Does the Soul Exist?

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Is there a soul?

Humans have souls, but animals and other living things do not
1
6%
Both animals and humans have souls
6
38%
The soul does not exist
6
38%
Other
3
19%
 
Total votes: 16

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R99
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby R99 » 02 Dec 2014 06:55

deschainXIX wrote:On April 3, 1982, my mother’s cousin, Stephanie Roper, a beautiful, young, and talented artist (whose artwork was later put up in a museum), was driving home from an evening spent with her college friends. She had dropped everyone off at their houses and was driving home herself when her car broke down on an empty, dark road. Eventually two men came along, asking her if she needed help.

She accepted. Well these two dirty, uneducated men were the last human beings she ever saw. Of course.

They abducted her at gunpoint, taking her to a small, half-rotten shack in the middle of the woods where, for the next two weeks, they brutally and constantly tortured, raped, and sodomized her. They ripped out all of her teeth and cut off her breasts, cauterizing the wounds with a clothes iron. One accidentally called the other by his first name, and so, becoming afraid of identification, they decided to kill her. She tried several times to escape, and upon her final attempt, when they found her in the woods, they accidentally split her skull open with a logging chain. And as she lay twitching on the ground, blood and brain pumping out of a fissure in her helmet of calcium, they decided she was too damaged, and they simply shot her to death where she lay squirming in the leaves and mud.

They dragged her back to the hut and, in an attempt to prevent identification, they cut off her hands and feet then set her on fire.

Well … about a week or two later the police dragged whatever was left of her out of the swamp. A deacon (whose piety luckily was not so idiotic as to conform to the Catholic belief that all confessions should stay in the booth and beyond the reach of law-enforcement ears) had listened to the confession of the younger of the two men, who had been driven mad by the guilt and horror at what he had done. The deacon, wisely putting humanity before doctrine, tipped off the police, and they arrested the younger man who subsequently turned in his “partner.”

This narrative may seem familiar to you, or at least the basic story-arc. That’s because these things (and some things even worse and more unjust than Stephanie Roper) happen every day. Every. Day. Are we not always hearing news stories about needless, mindless, pointless, horrors? The misery this girl must have gone through. Think of all she endured. Think of it.

Now--you make the outrageous claim that “everything happens for a reason.” I find that frankly fascinating and indeed psychologically revealing. Perhaps while you were reading Stephanie’s story, your blood pressure began to rise. I know that mine certainly rose while writing about it. There is something to be discerned from the fact that, at the moment, I want nothing more than to kill those two men (who were spared death-row and are presently serving two lifetimes each in prison). Injustice and simple wrong-ness are the most difficult human emotions to grapple with. They consume us to the point of utter insanity and torment and intellectual misery. We like things to make sense. We simply do. Our minds are mechanisms that love order and systematic, rightful processes. When something like this happens, we are not able to comprehend it. The world just doesn’t seem to make any sense. It’s a cruel, mindless, anti-magnanimous machine whose murderous cogs we are trapped within like rats in a trap. Some people like to comfort themselves by saying things like, “Everything happens for a reason.”

So, R99, why exactly did Stephanie have to suffer so much before meeting her brief and violent end? Was it so that she could be “made stronger and better-equipped to endure the hardships of life?” Was it so that the experience could make her a better person? Or maybe God, in his kindness and benevolence, was trying to teach her a lesson or get her attention and things simply got a little out of hand? I don’t think any of those things are the case, and you probably don’t either. What happened did not better anyone--not Stephanie, not her parents, not her family, not even the monsters who perpetrated the crime. It was the very definition of an atrocity--pure and simple and evil.

The best way we can overcome the world and remain happy is not to practice ignorant and offensive philosophies but to instead practice contentment and acceptance. The universe is beyond our control. It’s a wild animal that is too powerful and complicated to be subdued or comprehended by men.
“We either learn to accept or we end up writing letters home with crayons.” --Stephen King

I would, however, like to reaffirm the crucial difference between mental disorder and realism (often misinterpreted as pessimism). I think in nesgirl’s case, she is plagued by mental disorder. Reasoning with her and giving her such a feel-good philosophy as “everything happens for a reason, to make us stronger” will not help her or get anyone anywhere. She needs psychiatric treatment, just as a man with a broken leg needs a physician.


Wow deschainXIX, i say it again, u r a piece of art indeed. that post was for nesgirl. and nesgirl alone. i was just wanted give her something to think of, to think in the opposite direction. (she always thinks the negative way) And u Sir, gave her another reason hate this world and also hate herself. i know the cold world. dont need anyone to teach me about this world. u have no idea how people act here. rape,murder, and everything u could think of all here too. i am not living in a candy land here. someone need to think differently, and act differently. some people do, and thats y world is not in its end (i meant human race ).

i know u r a smart person deschainXIX. but it doesnt mean i am wrong.


deschainXIX wrote: I think in nesgirl’s case, she is plagued by mental disorder.


Let me put it this way. u said this not just to me,not just to her, to entire forum.(u forgot its a public forum) do u have any idea how people feel when u say these things in their face. its like telling a cancer patient "u r going to die no matter what" by the doctor..... Instead y not tell them like this "dont worry everything will be fine." am sure this makes a patient much better than the first statement. (and we know even cancer can be controlled by will power) my post was like the second statement , i encouraged her to fight back her negative feelings. we all know mind is powerful tool to attain anything. am sure she will be just fine if she find the way. next time when u make post, keep in mind who is going to read it.

see u around deschianXIX.
"A curious mind cannot be afraid of Unknown. It searches for the answers untill the end of time."

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R99
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby R99 » 02 Dec 2014 07:11

i wanted to edit my previous post, but u posted the replay. so here it goes...

"And nesgirl, i know am a stranger to u, but dont take my post as "bossing around". forgive me. am just trying to make a friendly conversation. am not that good in english.. "

nesgirl wrote:I had friends years ago, it wasn't like I didn't. However I either broke up with them. Or as I told you before with my closest ones, they literally died. Like when I was only 16 and I had that one really close friend whom I was able to talk to about my dreams (which I didn't know were WILDs) for a couple months, finding out he had them too despite him being mute, and I lost him to the flu, that was really devastating. Then just last year, I lost one a really close friend I had who was one of few who was one of my Lucid Dream friends from high school to pneumonia.
I do agree on platonic friends, although I don't make friends, because I don't trust anyone anymore, because I am afraid of being betrayed, hurt, and bullied now (I was betrayed by someone before, when that person stole something very valuable from me). However I don't agree on romantic partnerships with guys, because I am an aromantic asexual, and believe the guy would turn me into their working house slave and person who makes the all the money at my job, and then he spends all the cash and bankrupts me, exactly like the exes did with my sisters.


u r saying it like "we r going to die, so y we live this life??" i believe in purpose of life. am here in this world for a purpose. am searching for it. maybe u will find it too, if u let it find u. till now i believe my purpose is to find something never been found by anyone. everybody need an adventure to fight back in life. u do too.

may be ur special partner still waiting for u somewer, if u dont let them to enter ur life. they never will. we fall but we get up, thats life. nobody stay at ground after they fall. if nobody is there to help u, u need to get up urself. i must see through everything to find my purpose. and that what i am trying here. maybe one day u too.
"A curious mind cannot be afraid of Unknown. It searches for the answers untill the end of time."

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R99
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby R99 » 02 Dec 2014 08:47

nesgirl wrote:I told you I am an aromantic asexual.


i get it nesgirl, what i meant by partnership is not about marriage or boyfriend thingy, i said about a friend, who can be a good listener. and the one who truly understands u. i think that is the real partnership. i cant change u, i am just words in this forum. U r the one who can change URSELF. everything will be just fine. :)
"A curious mind cannot be afraid of Unknown. It searches for the answers untill the end of time."

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deschainXIX
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby deschainXIX » 03 Dec 2014 03:16

R99 wrote:Wow deschainXIX, i say it again, u r a piece of art indeed.


I would suggest that you refrain from merely gasping in prudish outrage and instead form a real, considered response to my post, but you have long proved yourself time and time again incapable of doing so. Your only arguments consist of sobbing and screaming, "Hey, you can't say that--that's offensive!" I bet you didn't even read or digest any of the things I said.
Oh ... and just so you stop making yourself look so unlettered and illiterate: The phrase is "piece of work," not "piece of art."

R99 wrote:that post was for nesgirl. and nesgirl alone.


Since you appear to be unable to grasp the concept of a "forum," I will now attempt to explain it to you: A forum is a place where all sorts of people can discuss ideas freely and openly, with anyone who wishes to enter the discussion. How, in your minuscule mind, can you possibly rationalize making such a statement as, "Only nesgirl is allowed to respond to the things I say. No one else is allowed to share their thoughts about what I wrote."? Not to mention, R99, that this is my thread, where we discuss the soul. You cannot enter my ring and then cry like a child when you get stung for saying something so inconceivably moronic.

R99 wrote:i was just wanted give her something to think of, to think in the opposite direction. (she always thinks the negative way) And u Sir, gave her another reason hate this world and also hate herself.


The mechanism of refutation within a Socratic environment must be foreign to you. Research it for me, would you? Now ... I was providing a refutation of what you "gave her to think of." After my refutation (which you failed to provide a response to), I proceeded to provide a much more sound, rational, and profound solution to crippling, manic cynicism. I advocated the ideals of acceptance and contentment--this aspect of my post you seemed to awkwardly skirt around entirely, apparently finding nothing jeeringly crude and mocking to say about it. Whatever feel-good philosophy you “gave her to think of,” did absolutely nothing to mend her vexed psyche, may I point out. She is also on my side, having found something she related with and connected to in my post, and finding absolutely nothing profound or thought-worthy in yours.

R99 wrote:i know the cold world. dont need anyone to teach me about this world. u have no idea how people act here. rape,murder, and everything u could think of all here too. i am not living in a candy land here. someone need to think differently, and act differently. some people do, and thats y world is not in its end (i meant human race ).


Out of this fumbling, floundering mess of a piece of rhetoric, I managed to perceive some semblance of the idea you were trying to communicate (I suggest learning to do everyone else the same courtesy they do you: carefully constructing legible sentences that accurately relate your response, which you are required to spend at least ten minutes considering). I nonetheless have so many questions about what in hell is going on between the two or three brain cells you possess. Since you apparently “know the cold world” (that’s a direct quote, mind you), why do say such petulant, childish things? Why do you seem to think that I don’t know “how people act here” (which I presume to mean, I don’t know how humans act on earth), when I just provided a long, horrifically detailed synopsis of a rather dark corner of my life? Apparently you do need someone to teach you about the nature of reality. You simply cannot say things like “Everything happens for a reason” and expect thinking, intellectual people to mindlessly accept it. Lucid people are bound to refute it. Such a claim is not only idiotic, ill-conceived, and deluded, but also blatantly insulting to all those who are suffering and who have suffered. You are telling them, “Suck it up. Your suffering has a purpose, and it was meant and predestined to happen. This is making you stronger, making you a better person, so stop complaining.”

R99 wrote:i know u r a smart person deschainXIX. but it doesnt mean i am wrong.


Yes. It does. You did not present anything coming even close to resembling a sufficient refutation. Allow me to reference again that revised age-old colloquialism: If you have nothing intelligent to say, don’t say anything at all.

R99 wrote:Let me put it this way. u said this not just to me,not just to her, to entire forum.(u forgot its a public forum) do u have any idea how people feel when u say these things in their face. its like telling a cancer patient "u r going to die no matter what" by the doctor..... Instead y not tell them like this "dont worry everything will be fine." am sure this makes a patient much better than the first statement. (and we know even cancer can be controlled by will power) my post was like the second statement , i encouraged her to fight back her negative feelings. we all know mind is powerful tool to attain anything. am sure she will be just fine if she find the way.


Here we exhaustingly return to your small-minded misconceptions about what a forum is. You contradict yourself so much I don’t even feel compelled to say anything. Nesgirl, on the other hand, was intelligent enough to know there was nothing wrong with what I said. She has publicly accepted, admitted, and apologized again and again about her mental disorder. Here on the forum she is always discussing her mood swings with us, and she is well-known and accepted by everyone, including me. We are reconciled with it. Where exactly have you been for all of this? Do you simply ignore these posts and continue to live in your phantasms of ignorance? I suppose so. I suppose your full doctrine is, “Never utter the truth, because the truth hurts my feelings.”? You’re one of those regressive, crowy types that is alarmed and offended by the mention of mental illness, unaware that it is no different than a physical ailment, and it should be treated as such. With respect and reality and a wish for practical, effective treatment. You’re straight out of the Victorian Era.

And in case this idiocy wasn't enough, this segment is additionally woven through with the agony of paradox. You are in fact the one who has forgotten that this is a public forum--or did you immediately forget when you straight-out stated that your post was meant solely and exclusively for nesgirl, and that no one else had the right to reply and share his or her thoughts? If you wanted to privately train nesgirl in your moronic, petulant, childish doctrines of artificial happiness, perhaps you should have PMed her and stricken up a conversation. Did I hurt your feelings? Get over yourself. This is the real world, and it’s time you woke up.

nesgirl wrote:next time when u make post, keep in mind who is going to read it.


I would offer you the same advice. I stand by what I said. You, however, have revealed yourself to be an absolute fool--though I'm quite certain your evident inability to construct grammatically-correct, legible sentences has already revealed that.

R99 wrote:see u around deschianXIX.


Oh. Are you leaving? Good riddance. You bring nothing new, interesting, or exciting to the table. You’re antiquated news, and poor news at that.
Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby HAGART » 03 Dec 2014 05:39

I read everything and I know I dropped the mic and left away.....

But I'm back, baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtdhWltSIg

Let REM speak for me.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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R99
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby R99 » 03 Dec 2014 05:46

nesgirl wrote:You are calling me a fool? Well that's nothing new out of you considering how many times you've made those remarks to me in the past.


not u nesgirl, deschainXIX called ME a fool. i dont care, even my grand father cant intimidate me. :D
"A curious mind cannot be afraid of Unknown. It searches for the answers untill the end of time."

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HAGART
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby HAGART » 03 Dec 2014 06:05

Nor should anyone call you a fool, and you have the choice to either listen or ignore. 1 or 0.

Do or do not, there is no try.
(I ripped a bit of Yoda there for you Starwars fans, and was probably wrong in my exact quotation of it, don't hurt me for I am weak, and don't want to get light-sabered with a plastic-light-saber replica, just because of semantics!)

Are we good? Ok. I was just saying that nobody can ever be a fool unless they choose to be, and even those who bully you into being who they want you to be, are worthy of questioning for they too are just a bully as well. Not a physical bully, but a mental one. And this has nothing to do with religion; I'm talking about history text books!

Everything you thought you knew is false. Question that. Do daddy-long-legs have the most poisonous bite, but are harmless because their fangs are so small? Sounds like a great urban legend, but it's wrong! Think about every single urban legend and compare that to the news, and whatever religious leaders spew. You will see the truth. It's not a bad place. It's full of fun and unconditional acceptance for all.

(I chose that urban legend example for a reason... it provokes fear, but for no reason.) ;)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby HAGART » 03 Dec 2014 06:59

nesgirl wrote:I know what that song refers to, and I get it. My pessimist attitude I developed made me let go of previous standards I had as a child a very long time ago, and I replaced them with new ones.


I'm a pessimist too and this is kind of my anthem. Yet my brother told me it had to do with being gay and coming out. I was like, wait, what? I am only saying I am a lucid dreamer and I've said too much and don't feel like I belong.

That's me in the corner!

I am not gay, but I am losing my religion and don't belong. This is my anthem. If I was gay I wouldn't be afraid to admit it. I'm just venting and there is something wrong with our culture and why can't I be free?

This was the soul thread, but I was just venting and it felt good! (I picked up that mic again....)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby deschainXIX » 03 Dec 2014 12:22

Sorry, nesgirl--yes, that was directed at R99. R99 wrote "next time when u make post, keep in mind who is going to read it." It either glitched and said you wrote that, or I made a mistake in writing the code. To clarify: I am pointing all of my accusations at R99.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
Well said.

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R99
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Re: Does the Soul Exist?

Postby R99 » 03 Dec 2014 13:48

deschainXIX wrote:Sorry, nesgirl--yes, that was directed at R99. R99 wrote "next time when u make post, keep in mind who is going to read it." It either glitched and said you wrote that, or I made a mistake in writing the code. To clarify: I am pointing all of my accusations at R99.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image



"next time when u make post, keep in mind who is going to read it."-- thats my words, i wonder whats wrong with the quote system. :(
"A curious mind cannot be afraid of Unknown. It searches for the answers untill the end of time."


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