Life and Death

For all other chat which isn't directly related to lucid dreaming and the world of sleep and dreams.
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deschainXIX
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby deschainXIX » 23 Jan 2015 02:44

Just to sort out a minor snag: evolution is a scientific fact. The public's idea of a "theory" and science's idea of a "theory" are two different things, and this annoying morphological discrepancy has indeed been a source of great confusion--most uninformed "creationists" frantically and triumphantly leap all over the face that it's known as "The Theory of Evolution," thinking that the term "theory" connotates a lack of evidence or a sub-meaning of tentativity. There's nothing tentative about it.

If we would all briefly divert our attentions to supplicate our omniscient deity, Google, we can all safely realize that a scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world."

Sorry about that, I just needed to make that brief elucidation--it buzzes around in my head whenever somebody invokes the "theory" misconception.

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Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2015 02:54

Has anyone seen evolution take place? NO. It takes too much time to notice, so it's just a theory and not proven. Therefore God did it, duh! I hate evolution. Blah! And science. Blech!
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby deschainXIX » 23 Jan 2015 02:57

:lol: Ah, a breath of fresh air to the evolution-creation debate!

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Well said.

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HAGART
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2015 03:25

My 'blahs' and 'blechs' filled the air with fetid halitosis. How can you breath? It was not fresh air and I challenge you on that. I think you were lying! Or being sarcastic. Ok, I was too....

I have a good thought experiment for evolution and can write it here and repost it in the other thread if need be.

Imagine creating a small insect-like robots. It just senses it's environment and moves around and gathers minerals and parts to be smelted and fabricated by a robot-swarm-hive-mind at the 'home base' much like a bee hive. They produce replica robots there, but every now and then a random 0 becomes a 1 or vice versa in their coding of how they make the replicas. Not only will they look different depending on the minerals they have in their environment, much like honey, believe it or not, tastes different depending on the terroir, but each new robot will have a slight mutation due to how it was made and also their own programming of how they behave. Sometimes it will have no noticeable affect, other times the 'insectobot' will go in circles without any improvement and other times, buy sheer chance, it will actually be an improvement that makes them more efficient to survive. The ones with no noticeable change will still continue to procreate by producing new ones based on their blue prints and so will the ones that improved to adapt to their environment better. The ones who went in circles go nowhere and have no influence on the next generation. With that one simple rule all it takes is time and the robots will change, evolve, and adapt.

That was a little rushed and I could think about it a whole lot more in detail, but you get the gist of it. Swarm-bots are certainly a possibility and not just in the realm of science fiction... it can certainly be science fact.
Last edited by HAGART on 23 Jan 2015 03:40, edited 1 time in total.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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deschainXIX
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby deschainXIX » 23 Jan 2015 04:06

Nice little analogy. A lot of times you've got to approach the natural selection concept indirectly like that so that the subect won't shut down and close up walls of denial.

But, yes. Evolution has indeed been observed directly. We've "seen" it happen right before our eyes! An easy example is the H1N1 virus. I also wonder what creationists think about why exactly we need a new influenza shot each season. Or why hand sanitizer should be avoided. Vaccines and sanitizers kill perhaps 99.9% of the bacterial population. But that 0.01% that happened to have the genetic mutation for being immune to it survive and proliferate and bam--this bacterial species has now evolved to be immune to our vaccine. And we need a new one for next season. Eventually, of course, we're going to run out of vaccination options. We desperately need to find a more economic way of keeping people alive, or else natural (or would it be artificial?) selection will create a super-influenza like good old H1N1. But this one will be unstoppable.

Evolution has also been directly observed in finch populations in the Galapagos Islands. The evolutionary biologists Peter and Rosemary Grant (married), who won the Kyoto Prize and the Pulitzer Prize for best nonfiction writing, have done some truly remarkable work there. They've methodically captured, tested, tagged, and observed and recorded Galapagos finches over six month long sessions every year since 1973, demonstrating rapid evolution via allopatric speciation.

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Well said.

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Derpybunneh
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 17:12

deschainXIX wrote:
Derpybunneh wrote:How do you know there is no next life?


How do you know there is an afterlife? Because that's what you've believed all your life?

I hear a chorus of "You can't do that!"s. But consider this. If I make the claim that the boogeyman exists, it would be rational of you to ask me, "How do you know the boogeyman exists?" And (using your own argumentative logic) I would promptly reply, "How do you know he doesn't exist?"

This fallacious problem is summarized in the following axiomatic statement:

The onus lies upon the believer--not the skeptic--to evidence his claims.



Humans are mortal. They are collections of frail, organic tissue and liquid that visibly deteriorates and has a limited metabolism and dies. They are kind of like fruiting bodies for the extenuation of life, that strange and adaptive matter procreated ultimately by supernovae. From what we know about the universe and biology and neurology, there is no reason to believe in an afterlife. There is nothing sublime or divine about the homo sapien and anyone who solipsistically and anthropocentrically makes such a claim has a lot of explaining ahead of them. And yet no one can explain it. It's merely a "feel-good" sentiment to comfort people. However, as any Buddhist (or lucid dreamer or meditator) will tell you, nonexistence is true bliss. So really the disposition of the realist is the most comfortable--not that this matters, of course. :D



We really are giving this thread far too much attention. This is an ugly little advertising thread made by an ugly, sad little person. I certainly don't want to strike up another debate. I just wanted to lay my cards on the table in response to DerpyBunneh and didn't realize how long I had made this post. :|


You, sadly, got it all wrong. You say there is nothing divine about our species, homo sapiens. Oh boy, disbeliever, there is mighty things divine about our species. We have the potential to become a god. We have the potential to be able to create our own universes, galaxies, planets, worlds, animals (animals does not include humans), and humans. How little you know of your potential. Oh how sad it is to think that you do not believe that we, humans, have potential. I feel sorry for you. My belief, and many others, believe in an afterlife. I've had a relative that died, and came back to life. TAKE THAT SCIENCE! Try proving how my relative came back to life. Only a god can do this. There's some proof of god and the afterlife for ya. She even wrote about her experience in the spirit world.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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Derpybunneh
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 17:14

deschainXIX wrote:
But, yes. Evolution has indeed been observed directly. We've "seen" it happen right before our eyes! An easy example is the H1N1 virus. I also wonder what creationists think about why exactly we need a new influenza shot each season. Or why hand sanitizer should be avoided. Vaccines and sanitizers kill perhaps 99.9% of the bacterial population. But that 0.01% that happened to have the genetic mutation for being immune to it survive and proliferate and bam--this bacterial species has now evolved to be immune to our vaccine. And we need a new one for next season. Eventually, of course, we're going to run out of vaccination options. We desperately need to find a more economic way of keeping people alive, or else natural (or would it be artificial?) selection will create a super-influenza like good old H1N1. But this one will be unstoppable.

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Speaking of vaccines, I've never been vaccinated for anything. LOL
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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Derpybunneh
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 17:15

This whole discussion is very amusing.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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Derpybunneh
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby Derpybunneh » 23 Jan 2015 17:23

HAGART wrote:I kept my joke clean with only urine and forgot about #2! It could have been a dirty joke! ;)
I didn't reply in the other thread but I would love to sit back and listen to Durbybunneh's theories that challenge natural selection. I'll sit back with some popcorn and 3D glasses, and I liked your joke too.
Evolution is just a theory though and I'm open minded, but you know what? So is gravity! Believe it or not, nobody can truly explain why it exists and there are competing theories. But it's still obvious it exists, like it or not. I'm on the Evolution Bandwagon right now and it's because I seriously thought about it and agree with it. If Derpy can change my mind, I'm open to it.

As for the new title... I don't know.


I'm open minded too. But when it comes to evolution, that idea is shut out of my mind. I abhor the idea of evolution. Whenever anyone talks about it, I facepalm.
LUCID DREAMS: 5
DREAMS: 9000+

“I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest
deceit in the history of science.” Søren Løvtrup

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HAGART
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Re: When you go to sleep, where do you really GO?

Postby HAGART » 23 Jan 2015 19:01

Suit yourself. I was eager to hear your side about evolution, but you certainly can't convince me if you won't challenge it at all, so we're at an impasse. I'll remain brainwashed by Darwin until someone saves me.

Derpybunneh wrote: I've had a relative that died, and came back to life. TAKE THAT SCIENCE! Try proving how my relative came back to life.

I'm very interested in your zombie relative and have heard about Voodoo rituals that raise the dead. I really do want to learn how your people and culture do it and if you can prove it to me.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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