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Postby MAKER » 12 Mar 2014 04:06

I have been trying the WBTB on and off for the past who-knows-how-long now, with very minimal success. Most of my LDs come from late morning naps (using my McDILD technique :D ), but because naps aren't always compatible with an adult schedule, WBTB would be optimal...but I've ran up against the proverbial wall.

I've read tons of articles and a few books that describe the different methods, including the WBTB, and I understand the mechanics of it, but I must either be doing something that doesn't fit right or I am not yet experienced enough in the utilization of this technique. So, I'm looking for some pointers from those that use this method.

Here are a few questions that I have, any advice helps!

How long do you sleep before waking up? (I usually set an alarm to go off after 6 hours of sleep)

Have you found a way to understand your personal REM cycle? If so, how? (IE phone app, etc.)

What amount of time do you spend awake? (I usually stay awake for 20-30 mins)

What do you think about/do while awake? (I try to think about the goal of my LD, but maybe another method would work?)

What sleeping position have you found to work best when attempting to go back to sleep? (I always lay on my back in hopes of sleep paralysis, but I always just fall into unconscious sleep, with the exception of once...ONCE! :( )

Have you found any modifications to this method to work best for you, or have you heard of any modifications that work best for others?

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Re: WBTB Help

Postby TillyPink » 15 Mar 2014 21:59

I use WBTB it;s my fool proof way of LD'ing although i've only been doing it for a few months and not every single night as I have to wake stupid early for my work. I am experimenting with different ways of entering LD as mostly I WILD through an OBE type entry...or a very brief dream entry then I don't OBE...but anyways, here's what I do:

I wake at 4am, I don;t set my alarm as i can wake on demand but if you need to use an alarm make sure it is not too intrusive as you want to wake as gently as pos so you can recall your dreams.

When I awake I lie there in the same position feeling my dreams, the texture, feelings, images in particular, just letting the dream state I came from flow through my head like a river.

Then I put on my lamp, have a sip of water and write down my dreams (or the most prominent ones) and sometimes thoughts I have about them.

I then go to the loo, go downstairs and make a hot cocoa...raw organic cocoa just topped up with water. You can put a bit of raw cane sugar in. I find this drink is comforting and relaxing to body and stimulating to mind. I only have a small cup for obvious reasons as i don't want to be awaking for the loo again! If you are generally a heavy sleeper (I am not) you might want to have a small black coffee instead. But not too strong obviously!

I then meditate for 10 mins, but you can do what you want...just nothing too mad like replying to 100 emails or dancing round the lounge to One Direction...you get the drift...reading a bit of fiction can be good. Or just sit and chill for a bit and sip your warm drink.

Generally I am up for 45 mins.

Then I swill my mouth out so I feel fresh and clean after my drink so I can feel fresh for bed without the groggy feeling.

I go back to bed and lay on my back. I do a body scan. Body scan from feet to head. Just notice your body lying on the bed, feel the bed under you, enjoy the support it gives you from tip to toe. Gently focus on breathing. This aids great relaxation. It doesn't have to be called a meditation. One way to become relaxed again but stay mindful and aware is to keep your inbreath and outbreath the same length...say a count of 3 for each. Do this for say 20 in and out breaths then let your breathing go back to it's natural pattern.

I then enjoy the hypnogogic state for a while. But i start to notice each image, rather then just let them amble around. I don't think about them, just notice what comes up with no feeling or emotion. It's pretty cool - I am so glad i learned this as it is a great state in itself. Imagine all this time i hadn't really taken much notice of the hypnogogic!

I lie on my back until I get to the stage where my body wants to turn into my fave sleep position which is on my right side. I turn but still carry on taking notice of the hypnogogic images. This is the important bit for me. If I start to drift a bit, i just catch myself and go back to noticing what was in my head when i started to drift. If my mind is just blank, i just notice the blankness. People talk about eyes...i think mine are looking at the back of my lids or into the center of my brow sometimes. But as long as you are able to stay cosy, relaxed but aware, I don't tend to worry.

After some time...and I can't tell you exactly how long cos I go by instinct but I would say pos 20 mins or so...I just let go. But it has also happened where I have had such a seamless link to WILD that I have not even noticed I have entered dream state and 'wake up' in my room!! But I'm wise to this now.

There have been times when I know I have fallen asleep then very soon after had a DILD which is more vivid then the spontaneous DILDs i always got before using WBTB.

This is my way so perhaps you can have a go too. I learned this method from Charlie Morley's book and it's called 'Hynogogic Drop in'. It's a WILD technique but I have tweaked it and molded it into my WBTB routine that I found suits me, and I think that is the key...I am experimenting with different versions too testing out how each version affect the entry of the LD. It's all good fun. Enjoy it. It's a special time to be awake. I love it!

Edit to say I am up for 45 mins from 4 so generally climb back into bed at 4.45 ish...unless I had mega dreams before and need more time to write them down!! I think I was lucky to find this pattern suited me first off so it's obviously my natural REM pattern but I think it does seem to suit a lot of people. To do this most successfully i need to go to bed at around 10-30 - 11 and no later. But I DO know I am someone who needs lots of sleep...if i'm really tired I struggle to LD. But that's me. Interested to know how you go as I'm still learning and exploring too as this is all relatively new to me. But I'm SO glad I did as it's changed everything.

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Re: WBTB Help

Postby Jack Reacher » 16 Mar 2014 05:30

Good post, whenever I try WBTB I always get up for like 10 seconds and go yup thats enough and just go straight back to sleep without having an LD. I think il try this properly on a day where my uni starts later.
"There is theoretical abstraction, and then there is true abstraction."

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Re: WBTB Help

Postby TillyPink » 16 Mar 2014 11:55

haha lol Jack! Think some people do this thing where they get up really quietly in the dark and try not to wake up too much, they go to the loo then back to bed and by not waking up too much it works for them...I tried that when i first joined this forum but it didn't work for me.

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Re: WBTB Help

Postby MAKER » 24 Mar 2014 20:46

TillyPink, thank you a ton for this really detailed response. I'm a big sleeper too, but I go to bed later than you. I'll try waking around 530 and back to bed around 6am. I'll let you know if I get any positive results. Thank you again!

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Re: WBTB Help

Postby Kirito » 24 Mar 2014 21:53

I wake up after dreams end(if you have a lot of awareness in dreams, you will be "there" when it ends). I use water if I dont think I will have high enough awareness for that. I stay awake until I feel like it is the right amount of time. It is really a "feeling" more than an amount of time. If you stay awake for too long, you won't be able to sleep, so you want to lean towards staying up less time. With each awakening you have a raise of awareness, and throw in some mantras and you can send in the idea of dreams into your dreams! Then you will have more awareness and a better chance of thinking of dreams!

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Re: WBTB Help (personal sleep cycle time)

Postby Tkmair » 15 Feb 2018 17:30

People say that you sleep in cycles of about 2 hours, which is true (as far as I know) but it's not exact. To see how long your typical sleep cycle is, try to find a time in the middle of the day to take a nap. Maybe a day when you are SLIGHTLY sleep deprived if you have a hard time napping during the day. Now, time how long you sleep before you wake up on your own. This is your approximate typical sleep cycle time (they get a little longer in the later sleep cycles during a full night sleep). It should be somewhat close to 2 hours and you may have to do this a couple times and take an average. If it is very short, like 30min, this is not your sleep cycle time it was just a short power nap. Mine is about 1:45 which explains why when I do my WBTB I have better luck if I wake up after 5 to 5:30 hours after I go to bed instead of the standard 6 hours.

This is just a technique I picked up from experience and seems to work on a few of my friends as well. I would love to know if this helps anyone, or if anyone else has any input or knowledge that I am missing here. I am not a sleep scientist so please don't scold me if I am wrong. BTW I stay up for about an hour. Sometimes a little longer.

Edit: just noticed this post is 4 years old lol sorry, I'm a little new here. but still, I hope it helps someone.

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Re: WBTB Help (personal sleep cycle time)

Postby LucidCat » 16 Feb 2018 01:05

Tkmair wrote:Edit: just noticed this post is 4 years old lol sorry, I'm a little new here. but still, I hope it helps someone.

It is helpful to me :) I haven't exactly measured the time yet but I've had some sleep deprived late afternoon naps during which I forgot to put on my alarm. I remember being upset with myself because of sleeping so long... it was always about 2.5 hrs o.O
But I will try to measure it on the weekend again.

By any chance, do you know if the length of the cycles also determines the amount of sleep an individual needs?
Tell me briefly about your lucid dreaming journey :arrow: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20305


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Re: WBTB Help

Postby Watte » 13 Mar 2018 14:21

im a newb and i try to lucid dream for like 3-4 weeks now and im experimenting with WBTB alot and my personal favorite is sleeping 7h stay awake for 1h in this hour i just meditate for 20-30mins write down my dreams only 1 or 2 which takes another 10-15mins and then practise my awarness or do something else and then go back to sleep if im lucky i go straight into a lucid dream or i wake up and than instantly fall back into a dream while im concious sort of like a WILD or (because im doing MILD) i just realise im dreaming... and i get really vivid dreams in generall

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