When a dream won't listen

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kater
Posts: 1
Joined: 21 Feb 2015 18:49

When a dream won't listen

Postby kater » 21 Feb 2015 20:13

I didn't really know anything about lucid dreaming until today when I shared a frustrating dream experience with my partner and she said I was talking about lucid dreaming. So I looked it up. I am a lucid dreamer. I feel like I am almost always aware of my dream state. I change locations, hit replay, decide to revisit a dream that I had months ago. I use dreams to figure out problems, practice presentations, and finish pieces of work. My dreams always do what I want them to do until last night.
Last night I entered a dream I had been in before and I didn't want to dream it again. So I tried to change it and I had this awareness telling me that this was the only dream sequence available for the thoughts I was accessing. I was a bit stunned. 'This is my dream' so I tried changing it again and received the same message. So I gave up and went on to an entirely different dream. Later on the same dream resurfaced with the addition of flashing red lights and a blaring siren. No need for all of that I thought. It isn't a bad dream sequence just wasn't good enough to dream it a second time. The lights and siren stopped but the same dream sequence began again. I tried to change it again and the same message came through. Only dream sequence available for the thoughts I was accessing. So I just gave up and switched to a whole new dream again.
So on the one hand I feel like I was successful in not having to re-dream the same dream but there was this other strange block. For the first time I felt like I was stuck and didn't have control. I had to go where my dream state wanted me to go instead of the other way around. I have had a similar experience when I have had to hit replay on a dream several times before it ended the way I wanted it to end or when I wanted to stop myself from say tripping in a dream and then the trip would just happen in another place and it would take several replays before I didn't trip at all. But this was different I didn't feel like I had the power. Can I change that?

Philosopher8659
Posts: 127
Joined: 14 Feb 2015 07:14
Location: Michigan

Re: When a dream won't listen

Postby Philosopher8659 » 22 Feb 2015 01:12

Perhaps it is you who are not listening.

The mind is wholly linguistic by function and fact. Language is all it can do. There are two, and only two primitive branches of language, logic and analogic. It is clear that you are not listening.

When you talk to anyone, anyone at all, do you really control both sides of the conversation?

jasmine2
Posts: 421
Joined: 15 Sep 2013 04:42

Re: When a dream won't listen

Postby jasmine2 » 22 Feb 2015 03:01

If I had a dream which included sirens and red flashing lights drawing attention to an aspect of the dream, I would think, "Wow, my dreaming mind really wants me to observe certain images, characters, or emotions in this dream. What personal associations can I make regarding important metaphorical language or symbols in the dream? Does this point to a particular situation or attitude in my life?"

Many lucid dreamers often focus mostly on discovering the many ways in which they can control their dream environment, or to engage in video game-type combat with other dream characters. More experienced lucid dreamers may become more curious about exploring the deeper layers of the subconscious/unconscious mind, and more subtle realms of perception.

Robert Waggoner, in his very wise, informative book -"Lucid Dreaming: Gateway To The Inner Self" - says, "No sailor controls the sea. ... Similarly, no lucid dreamer controls the dream. Like a sailor on the sea, we lucid dreamers direct our perceptual awareness within the larger state of dreaming. ... to seen and unseen points. In so doing, we come to know the limited realm of our awareness compared to the magnificent depth and creativity of what I refer to as "the dreaming". (pg 17 - 19)

"The magic of intent seems to be just that - the ability to summon an inner responsiveness, instinctively attuned to you, with creative talents beyond supercomputing calculations, whose goal seems the appropriate execution of your vocalized desire. In some respects, intent flies far beyond the expectation effect to some deep, rich, formatively creative force to surprise lucid dreamers with an experience previously unknown and basically unknowable. The manifestations of intent arose from something deeper than my waking self's doing." (pg. 49)

- jasmine2

Philosopher8659
Posts: 127
Joined: 14 Feb 2015 07:14
Location: Michigan

Re: When a dream won't listen

Postby Philosopher8659 » 22 Feb 2015 04:03

Wow. Someone who is actually thinking. Take it a step further, is the mind educating itself?

Have you ever entered a lucid dream, aware that it is a language, with a very clear question you are asking, about something you could not possible know the answer to, and received an answer? To be sure it will be in metaphor, i.e. an analog response, usually, but all you have to do is say what you see to get the answer?

When you start using the language on this level, then you will know for sure, you are not in Kansas anymore, nor is most of what you read about Lucid Dreams very relevant.

I was guided in my understanding, but you have to learn the language.

What ever it is, it can use language as you understand it for what you consider perfect language, however, when you understand this, you realize that there is a method to this madness, it is a school and we are not really the sharpest tools in the shed. In the lucid dream state, I once pitched a fit over analog language. Needless to say, the response was in perfect English, and I really didn't enjoy it. It was one simple sentence, "How do you feel about your progress?" To me, that question had a ton of implication.

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Alvar
Posts: 11
Joined: 23 Jan 2015 05:07

Re: When a dream won't listen

Postby Alvar » 23 Feb 2015 07:29

Philosopher8659 wrote:Wow. Someone who is actually thinking. Take it a step further, is the mind educating itself?

Have you ever entered a lucid dream, aware that it is a language, with a very clear question you are asking, about something you could not possible know the answer to, and received an answer? To be sure it will be in metaphor, i.e. an analog response, usually, but all you have to do is say what you see to get the answer?

When you start using the language on this level, then you will know for sure, you are not in Kansas anymore, nor is most of what you read about Lucid Dreams very relevant.

I was guided in my understanding, but you have to learn the language.

What ever it is, it can use language as you understand it for what you consider perfect language, however, when you understand this, you realize that there is a method to this madness, it is a school and we are not really the sharpest tools in the shed. In the lucid dream state, I once pitched a fit over analog language. Needless to say, the response was in perfect English, and I really didn't enjoy it. It was one simple sentence, "How do you feel about your progress?" To me, that question had a ton of implication.


I've had this other related experience, which was repeated in an LD this week. Having given up on my attempt to control the dream I gravitated toward the dream character who seemed friendly to me, in this case a child. When I came close he hugged me and I almost felt hugged by the dream. I have to say I felt a kind of pure love, don't want to use that word lightly. I asked this character: do you have a message or a lesson for me? And he did. He did tell me something that I am not going to share here, but it was basically said in figurative language. In the dream I nodded and felt I had grasped what he meant, but when I woke up and remembered the same exact words I had no idea what they meant. I think I do now, but I'm not entirely sure.

I say this to make the point that even when we communicate with our dreams in an effective manner we may not consciously understand the content of that communication.

Philosopher8659
Posts: 127
Joined: 14 Feb 2015 07:14
Location: Michigan

Re: When a dream won't listen

Postby Philosopher8659 » 23 Feb 2015 11:41

I have learned that whatever the source is of dreams and visions, they can communicate so that we can understand, however, the majority of the communication is affecting us on psychological levels I do not understand. The source of mind can communicate with us anywhere at any time. In other words, we are being encouraged to exercise our will and our understanding otherwise these hoops we have to jump through would not be required. In simple words, written long ago, to learn judgment.

Personally, I conclude that since the goal is not different from the biological definition of the mind itself, that a major portion of lucid dream examination, is the examination and learning the principles of language itself. It is the only power and function of the mind. Through the principles of language we produce human behavior. Not a hard concept. It seems contradictory to claim an interest in Lucid Dreaming but not know the purpose or actively strive for understanding of what it is for and what we, as mind, are for.

It only makes sense to me that as the mind functions wholly through the artifice of language for the production of human behavior that maintains and promotes life, that I am right. From very decisive personal experience, I had to give up the idea that the source is my own mind. That view is simply impossible, and thus naïve to consider. My mind is, personally, way too feeble to do what I have seen done.

This situation does not bother me so much. My hobby has always been about understanding to begin with. Still, it was difficult for me to go through what I was put through, and to conclude what I have. On the other hand, I had no idea that I would make such breakthroughs language theory and basic mathematics and consequently have so much work to do. But, happy is the person who has a job to do.

So, I cannot support many views on current psychology, nor mythology, I can see ideas, in language which, however, are not common. The principles of language are the same everywhere in the Universe. By definition of the mind, it then follows that there are universal standards in human behavior. And that, the human race, even according to the definition of mind, and function of language, is currently proto-linguistic, i.e. a primitive culture. Too many rely upon self flattery to consider that notion.


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