Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Discuss external aids which help you lucid dream including brainwave entrainment, supplements and herbs, lucid dream masks, and more.
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son of shennong
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Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby son of shennong » 19 Apr 2015 23:01

I continue to tinker w my stack.
Anyone w any experience w Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, and/or hops, kindly share
your thoughts w me.
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau

somfar
Posts: 20
Joined: 12 Apr 2015 05:06

Re: Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby somfar » 20 Apr 2015 01:29

Shennong


Hello again. I actually asked this question under general topics myself so might have posted it in the wrong place. I was asking more specifically about the herb Calea Zacatechichi which is boasted to give you more vivid dreams not a promise of lucid dreams. Any experience with this herb?

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son of shennong
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Re: Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby son of shennong » 20 Apr 2015 01:55

somfar wrote:Shennong


Hello again. I actually asked this question under general topics myself so might have posted it in the wrong place. I was asking more specifically about the herb Calea Zacatechichi which is boasted to give you more vivid dreams not a promise of lucid dreams. Any experience with this herb?


Wow, we seem to be working on 2 threads @ once.

I've taken Calea Z 3 times now, once by itself & twice as part of my stack.
I keep cutting back on the dosage. Initially, it was about 1 gram, last time maybe 200 mg. As far as my body goes, I get some nausea from it, usually centered around the fundus of my stomach. As I have a history of gastritis, this may not be the case w u.

The 1st time was the worst. Also some intestinal cramping & slight diarrhea the 1st time, which resolved itself wo my doing anything for it over the course of the day
.
Noticed some extra vividness to the dreams I had on it, altho nothing to write home about @ this point.

W my background in herbs & my interest in neurochemistry, I keep working on a formula for my stack. Of course, what works for me may not work for u. I believe we all have a somewhat unique biochemistry due to a combination of genetics, disposition & temperament, trauma, diet, age, etc. On the other hand, we're all of the same species, so some herbs & supplements will have pretty much the same effect.

Happy to be of any help to u that I can be on this website.
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau

somfar
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Joined: 12 Apr 2015 05:06

Re: Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby somfar » 20 Apr 2015 02:32

I have just recently purchased some in leaf form and have tried it twice thus far without any noticeable difference in my dream state. I do have to confess though I am mixing it with a cannabis based product to facilitate the taste and effect of it. Do you think that the cannabis would take away from the effect of the herb. I am also smoking it as opposed to drinking tea or pill form, past experience has taught me the effects of smoking herb is much quicker.

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son of shennong
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Re: Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby son of shennong » 20 Apr 2015 03:33

somfar wrote:I have just recently purchased some in leaf form and have tried it twice thus far without any noticeable difference in my dream state. I do have to confess though I am mixing it with a cannabis based product to facilitate the taste and effect of it. Do you think that the cannabis would take away from the effect of the herb. I am also smoking it as opposed to drinking tea or pill form, past experience has taught me the effects of smoking herb is much quicker.


You're right in that smoking an herb gives a faster effect than eating. Goes straight to the bloodstream as opposed to eating where it first moves through the stomach, duodenum, & liver b4 it moves into the blood.
Curiously for me, all cannabis I consume, both sativa, indica, & hybrids, enhances (if that's the word for it) my insomnia. Great in the daytime, as far as I'm concerned, but not part of my LD stack.

If you care to google cannabis & dreaming, u will come across literature suggesting cannabis inhibits REM sleep.* On the other hand, the body seeks out homeostasis, so if you consume cannabis over a period of time & then cease consumption for a few days, u could see a REM rebound effect, w more REM activity than is normal. While arriving @ ur stack, u might want to use it during a cannabis break, as an experiment, & see if that facilitates greater dreaming. Trial & error. Scientific method. Hypothesis - working Hypothesis - Eureka.

Currently I'm operating under the premise that I must prepare for a good dream, that it's nigh impossible to have one intense dream after another every night. Stacks do help me & but if I use them each & every night, tolerance ensues. I need to take a break from them periodically so my body can reset itself, so to speak. Another reason why I tout meditation. As my focus increases, when I do go for an LD or a good HI, I can get more out of it.

You're in your 50's, I'm in my 60's. Our biochemistry is probably more closely related than it is 2 the 20 & 30 types on this board. Please keep me posted as to your successes and failures. I can learn from your experiences.

*As was pointed out to me in another thread, we can dream in all stages of sleep, & I'm sure for certain individuals dreaming is intense in all stages, but most of the literature suggests the bulk of dreaming occurs during REM states.
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau

somfar
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Re: Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby somfar » 20 Apr 2015 04:20

what is your opinion of modern medicine? My take is that all medicine has it"s origins from the earth, from plants. Man would not be where he is today were it not for his curiosity about the things that surround him, but at the same time tends to over think his importance in life. We consider ourselves the top of the food chain but even animals, unless sick do not behave themselves as poorly as we do. Sorry.....easily side tracked. My opinion.......man is corrupted by his mind and medicine because they are impure. We seek that which we do not know well enough and are not prepared for the outcome. AS always....I welcome your thoughts.


Ignorance....is a disease that infects us all.

The cure is....?

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son of shennong
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Re: Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby son of shennong » 20 Apr 2015 05:06

somfar wrote:what is your opinion of modern medicine? My take is that all medicine has it"s origins from the earth, from plants. Man would not be where he is today were it not for his curiosity about the things that surround him, but at the same time tends to over think his importance in life. We consider ourselves the top of the food chain but even animals, unless sick do not behave themselves as poorly as we do. Sorry.....easily side tracked. My opinion.......man is corrupted by his mind and medicine because they are impure. We seek that which we do not know well enough and are not prepared for the outcome. AS always....I welcome your thoughts.


A little off topic but I'll bite.

Civilization is an accumulation of knowledge passed down over many generations. Right now, we as a humanity have easy access to thousands years of knowledge. Not successive in some cases mind u, there r gaps, but all this knowledge really does a number on me sometimes. I mean, if you took a king, from say the Middle Ages in Europe, & looked @ his daily existence, then compared it w the avg Joe in Europe 2day, there's no comparison. Indoor plumbing, hot & cold running water, electricity, LED lights, cars, jet airliners that can take u halfway around the world in 20 hrs, the internet. We're talking top of the heap vs blue collar worker. I think there's no comparison. Pertaining to modern Western medicine, I'll be the first to admit it's got a lot of flaws, but it does have a lot of strengths.

My take is because of the times we live in & the access we have, we should take the best of both concerning traditional herbal/energy based medicine & modern technological/pharmacological medicine. Listen to your body deeply & strive to become a well informed & educated medical consumer.

Having said that, the thing that drives me up the wall w modern Western medicine is this: It's not based on health so much as pathologies. It says you are either well or you're sick w something. To use an example, if u come down w a cold, the good Dr. will most likely say u either have a bacterial or viral infection & give u something for it. The medicine might work very well. But the Dr. will say nothing about the state of the environment (which is u) in which the bacteria or virus is allowed to thrive. We get exposed to bacterias & viruses more than we realize, yet we don't get sick from all of them. I believe modern Western medicine doesn't yet fully comprehend (and i say this based on how I have seen it practiced) that there are degrees of health. You can be considered healthy yet be on the verge of a health crisis or you can be so healthy you are going radiant & Western medicine will most likely see both states as the same. No varying degrees of health. I don't get it. Health is something you can build on, fortify, sustain, or tear down over time.

That's my take. I love having access to it & some of the pharmaceuticals & surgical procedures are flat out life savers, but it's plainly flawed IMO as far as looking @ the body as a whole. It doesn't yet recognize synergy very well & disses medical traditions that do.

I think I wrote more 2day than I have in a month. :shock:
Pleasant dreams, somfar
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau

somfar
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Joined: 12 Apr 2015 05:06

Re: Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby somfar » 20 Apr 2015 05:50

Sorry to keep you so busy.... but I can't let this one go. Think on this thought.... most of what medicine is supposed to be about is not even close. At best we have come up with....remedies, not addressing the cause......merely the symptoms, in effect.....nothing more than another form of a bandage on an open wound. Not off point when you consider that we are talking about herbs that heal and not just mask the pain, in what ever form that pain appears. If you can heal another soul.......then you should.

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son of shennong
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Re: Skullcap, valerian root, passionflower, hops

Postby son of shennong » 20 Apr 2015 19:03

somfar wrote:Sorry to keep you so busy.... but I can't let this one go. Think on this thought.... most of what medicine is supposed to be about is not even close. At best we have come up with....remedies, not addressing the cause......merely the symptoms, in effect.....nothing more than another form of a bandage on an open wound. Not off point when you consider that we are talking about herbs that heal and not just mask the pain, in what ever form that pain appears. If you can heal another soul.......then you should.


No problems w keeping me busy & once again, the apology is unnecessary, altho it does illustrate there is a degree of humbleness to your spirit, which is usually a good sign.

After another restless sleep, punctuated w a fleeting awareness of 2 dreams sometime between 3 & 7, now fueled by caffeine & fortified by various qi & shen tonics, I'm back online for a bit. I'm prepping for a good HI or LD around the middle of the wk, so I may drop out of cyberspace for a bit beginning tonite or tomorrow.

I'll jump around within your quote while addressing its points if you don't mind. Regarding this threads title concerning the specific herbs I mentioned I was in need of greater knowledge of, when you began a sentence w "Not off point...", somewhat off point. Still, in a greater sense, as we appear to building up a rapport w each other on this website, I propose herewith will allow each other a greater latitude in running off course in threads, as going far off on tangents may sometimes yield unexpected rewards. No need to state your agreement, but if you disagree state that & we will make a greater effort to toe the line.

The thought you wish me to think on: "most of what medicine is supposed to be about is not even close." You didn't define what medicine is supposed to be, only alluded to it. That dog don't hunt. She or he or it if a neutering or castration was rendered, is just sniffing around as I see it. Please pardon what may be presumed to be a piddling predilection for pedantry, but unless you first clearly define your terms, how can you logically lay out the points on the subject(s) you wish to argue?

What is medicine? Once you lay that on the table, would it not be easier to clearly state what it is not or what it should be?

Here's what jumped out on top w my 1st google query:

med·i·cine
ˈmedəsən/
noun
noun: medicine; plural noun: medicines

1.
the science or practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease (in technical use often taken to exclude surgery).
2.
a compound or preparation used for the treatment or prevention of disease, especially a drug or drugs taken by mouth.

Now then, following your line of reasoning after you asked what medicine is, I think what you state is quite valid, but I'm unsure which definition of medicine you are referring to; medicine the science or practice or medicine the compound or preparation or both or neither, even perhaps a greater definition you are aware of to a lesser or greater extent. While I am in minor rapture over the wealth of knowledge so easily accessible over the internet, I do not consider it Gospel & am more than willing to accept a greater meaning for the word medicine if someone would only provide it. Medicine, mayhaps like most things, is in a state of flux & changes over time. @ some point, its accepted meaning might as well.

You end w the statement, "If you can heal another soul.......then you should." Again, valid & worthy of speaking to, but if we are talking about modern Western medicine w all of its bells & whistles, what's missing from the picture? Acknowledgment that you & I even have a soul. True, I believe. Tell me somfar, where in the canons of modern Western medicine will you find empirical evidence that we have souls? Give me the link if you can find it, but don't knock yourself out on this one as I believe it's not there.

Reference to the soul is found more in the domains of the arts, philosophy, traditional Eastern medicine, religion, & perhaps other disciplines that don't come to me head @ this time. An argument concerning the soul w be cool to have. Platonic.

So, in our future arguments, I think it's in order that we first define our terms clearly b4 we lay out the points we wish to argue. Now, of course, I am speaking about argument in the classical Western sense, which is to say, Greco-Roman. As I understand it or remember, for I firmly believe in reincarnation, arguments are part & parcel of our human experience. An argument has very little to do w losing ones temper, altho arguments can be heated @ times & explosions may occur.

Arguments are a daily event for me & I have to say, if no one else is around to engage me, then I will have arguments w myself. For example, on the way to the bathroom this morning I inadvertently kicked the doorframe w my foot, specifically the 2nd toe on my L foot. After the obligatory expletive to help dissipate the initial pain, I am left 2day w this argument; How much thought should I direct towards my affected toe 2day? Should I baby it & give it some time to rest & heal or assume it's basically much ado about nothing & go about my day worry free regarding it, trusting in the innate intelligence of my body to heal it on its own over time without any conscious intervention on my behalf outside of watching it for color changes and/or excessive heat/pain.

Now, since the first line of your post to me contained the phrase "think on this thought", & since I have seen you are given over to brief bouts of poetry @ times, which I again believe is a good sign, illustrative as much of your soul as your brain, I would leave you w a short poem I found recently which I admire. I won't state its purported author. You will have to guess that or not, the choice is yours.

Go forward without a path,
Fearing nothing, caring for nothing!
Wandering alone, like the rhinoceros!
Even as a lion, not trembling at noises,
Even as the wind, not caught in the net,
Even as the lotus leaf, untainted by water,
Do thou wander alone, like the rhinoceros!
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau


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