Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking insomnia

Discuss lucid dreaming techniques including dream recall, MILD, WILD, meditation and other ways of attaining lucidity in dreams.
astrovineyard
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Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking insomnia

Postby astrovineyard » 23 Apr 2015 14:47

Sorry, character limit wouldn't let me add a question mark to the end of the subject line!

Anyway, for all you lucid dreaming gurus out there, does anyone have ANY technique or supplement that can increase chances of LD or SP, but NOT lead to a recurrence of insomnia?

LD is so difficult for me to attain other than accidentally, which is extremely rare (and even then I lack control), and I USED to get SP as a kid, so it isn't like my body and brain aren't predisposed against having these experiences. But whenever I try any of the methods to have LD, whether is be meditate, wake-back-to-bed, trying to fall asleep on my back (which I used to be able to do, but now I only fall asleep once I roll onto my side or stomach), or any supplement (like Galantamine), I am plagued not with SP but with NOT SLEEPING. One can easily blame a drug for having a side effect, but the techniques should not, so therefore it must be an anxious state of expectation I can't avoid when I try to have these experiences - but if I DON'T expect and try to have them (and sleep fine) then they NEVER happen!

What am I to do?

Currently I am recovering from my insomnia. It has been a couple weeks since my doctor prescribed Ambien ran out and I've only had two nights of being unable to sleep since then, so it is too soon for me to start attempting anything yet, especially medication. But in the meantime, is there anything anyone can suggest - particularly those who have had problems with insomnia and have found ways to LD that do not make insomnia occur again?

Thanks!

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taniaaust1
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby taniaaust1 » 23 Apr 2015 15:38

Dream journal, reality checks and all day awareness (or other awareness techniques to boost this during day).
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

astrovineyard
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby astrovineyard » 24 Apr 2015 15:03

I've tried dream journals infrequently over the years, most recently as part of my doctor's orders to help overcome insomnia. As far as I can tell a dream journal merely helps you recall with more detail the dream you just had before it slips from your recall once the day begins. Are you saying this can increase the chance of lucid dreams on subsequent nights? I did not notice this while keeping my journal.

And I don't know what you mean by awareness. All I AM is aware during the day. What else does someone who feels he already pays more attention to life's details need to do to be MORE aware?

WannabeDreamer
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby WannabeDreamer » 25 Apr 2015 04:05

astrovineyard wrote:I've tried dream journals infrequently over the years, most recently as part of my doctor's orders to help overcome insomnia. As far as I can tell a dream journal merely helps you recall with more detail the dream you just had before it slips from your recall once the day begins. Are you saying this can increase the chance of lucid dreams on subsequent nights? I did not notice this while keeping my journal.

And I don't know what you mean by awareness. All I AM is aware during the day. What else does someone who feels he already pays more attention to life's details need to do to be MORE aware?


The point of dream Journal is to notice dream themes. If something happens many time you dream, remind yourself to become lucid. The theme become like a trigger or a sign that your dreaming and can become lucid. Since you've kept a dream journal for a while, look back and see if there's any common themes. But don't look too far back because the person change and so do their mind and dreams are in the mind. So try to look for common themes of dream you've had recently like in the past few weeks, and remind yourself you'll become lucid the next time it happens

The awareness, I believe is to help you notice you're dreaming. You are probably aware you are awake without the thought it's actually the dream. The point of awareness is for you to look around in the dream to see if it's a dream, once you realize it is, you might become lucid. While you are awake or think you're awake, look around to see if anything is strange that proves it's actually a dream. Doing this in the waking world will increase the chance it happens in your dream.

To summarize this, dream journal is to notice dream themes. Once you know a theme, remind yourself next time it happens, you'll become lucid. Awareness is to be aware of what's going on around you and rather if it's possible Andorra you're dreaming. People go around 100% sure they're awake, but you need to question your reality so you question it in your dream just like reality checks. So if you look around to see if something is strange, hopefully you'll do it in your dream. These techniques is to help you realize when you're dreaming so you'll become lucid. These techniques increase your chances it will just come without keeping yourself awake.

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taniaaust1
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby taniaaust1 » 30 Apr 2015 10:19

astrovineyard wrote:I've tried dream journals infrequently over the years, most recently as part of my doctor's orders to help overcome insomnia.


If you are keeping the dream journal or a different reason it may carry slightly less impact as when one is keeping a dream journal to hopefully aid in LD, while you are writing down the dream, you are strongly subconsciously aware that you are doing this action to hopefully help you have a LD. If you are keeping one though for a different reason (cause a doctor told you too), this connection "dream journal leads to LD".. may not be going into your subconsciousness as strong or not at all if one is focused on keeping it for a different reason.

Anyway "one" of the reasons to keep a dream journal is that it helps signal to your subconsciousness 1/ that you want to LD AND 2/ remember your dreams. (One may have a LD and forget if one hasn't remembered that dream).

By not keeping a dream journal, this is one less signal you are sending to your subconsciousness that you are interested in your dreams and want to have a LD. Keeping a dream journal isn't only about simply dream recall. Keeping a dream journal "can" be an important part of triggering off LDs. (and to signal to your subconsciousness that dreams are important to you .. its best to be regular about it and not just write a dream down here and there).

Of cause keeping a dream journal is also important as other said for those who are still trying to figure out the reality check stuff and don't know their dream themes to do it too, but this is just one of the reasons for keeping one, there is the other two reasons for keeping one which are just as important for beginners trying to LD or to try to boost the amount someone is doing LD.


As far as I can tell a dream journal merely helps you recall with more detail the dream you just had before it slips from your recall once the day begins. Are you saying this can increase the chance of lucid dreams on subsequent nights?


So the answer to that is yes, it "can" increase the change of a lucid dream on subsequent nights.

And I don't know what you mean by awareness. All I AM is aware during the day. What else does someone who feels he already pays more attention to life's details need to do to be MORE aware?


To help trigger off a DILD (the type of LD you should be trying to focus on with your insomnia issues).. you should be doing things like in your daily life looking around and looking for things which are out of place or odd (to then reality check too if you see anything IF the situation is such that you still don't know if its a LD). Though you say you pay a lot of attention of your daily life.. do you actually look and try to seek out the strange? Also if you walk into a room or go anywhere, it's best to be checking the environments out to see if anything is weird.

For a DILD, several things usually come into play too help trigger 1/ dream journal 2/ paying more attention to your surroundings and seeking things to indicate possible dream 3/ reality checking.

Here's a LD of mine from last night, a non WILD one http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16395 . Though it came from a false awakening, it could of just as easily come from a normal non lucid dream (A couple of weeks back I had a LD from a non lucid one due to reality checking on something "strange", that one had been gaining lucidity from a non lucid nightmare. So that is two LDs in two weeks in which weren't WILD triggered and which I didn't do anything which could risk insomnia in someone). Lots of people never do WILD but have lucid dreams from DILD or DELD.
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astrovineyard
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby astrovineyard » 30 Apr 2015 22:20

I guess I need to figure out this DILD thing, then. Perhaps I avoided it on account of the seemingly missing final "o." :roll:

You understand where I am coming from in my approach, based not only on advice I've read elsewhere but my OWN experiences. I am familiar with SP and that was when I would be most lucid in a dream, so I thought producing that would make LD easier (yes, even though there are ways without SP, as you point out). I was prepared to deal with the potential terror and loss of control, which would be a temporary minute or so, but NOT weeks on insomnia.

I did not know INTENT was such a big deal with the dream journal. In both cases, there you are, recalling and writing your dream in detail, so it seemed the very act would have the same benefit regardless of who told you to do it and why. You know, like eating spinach.

I tend to focus more on details during the day, as friend often tell me. Just a walk through the woods is a unique experience with me present, or a tour of the night sky. In the woods I'd be pointing out every plant and tell which other plants it is related to, if it is edible, etc. So I'm already one who dwells on details.

In dreams I remember details, too. But I only seem to recall oddities after I've woken up. Like if I dream of a house I return to in many dreams, but it has rooms that don't exist in the real-life counterpart. Or if I suddenly start levitating. Though rare, it is funny how I'd be in the dream seeming to be surprised that I have this mental ability to levitate inches off the ground by pure will, or leap up or down stairs in huge bounds of several steps at a time. So if I can recall these dream inconsistencies and even question them in the dream, but be fooled while in the dream, how can I get past that?

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taniaaust1
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby taniaaust1 » 05 May 2015 14:00

astrovineyard wrote: So if I can recall these dream inconsistencies and even question them in the dream, but be fooled while in the dream, how can I get past that?


I guess you don't do reality checking to unusual things in your daily life. It's the reality checks to unusual occurances which can help one overcome this issue.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

astrovineyard
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby astrovineyard » 06 May 2015 04:21

So, if nothing unusual happens during my day (which I guess is beyond my control) then even the option of reality checking is out?

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taniaaust1
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby taniaaust1 » 06 May 2015 05:16

astrovineyard wrote:So, if nothing unusual happens during my day (which I guess is beyond my control) then even the option of reality checking is out?


As it's to "unusual" occurances.. most days or even weeks, their may be no reality checking for this... (it doesn't have to be something beyond your control though.. just unusual). I do this kind of check in real life very rarely as I don't get many unusual occurances but I don't fail to miss a check when I do get one in real life. (that's the key, a person doing this kind of check needs to make sure they never miss doing a check in real life to something odd, if you don't check once to something odd, you will may be back to square one with trying to program yourself to do this).

Out of my three last reality checks of these.. one turned out to be real life (that was funny as the situation was so odd that I could of sworn it was a dream), the other two times turned out they were dreams so I became lucid in those due to it.

As with this one a person is hardly doing any reality checks due to not much odd stuff in real life to do them too, it can take a long time before a person has it ingrained to do a reality check to odd stuff in a dream (I think it took me about a year of using this as a reality check before I started doing this one in my dreams.. but as I said, I hardly need to check in real life).

It is always a good idea though even though this takes time, to do reality check to any odd things as of cause dreams can be often odd. This probably should be part of everyones LD program.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

astrovineyard
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Re: Is there a way to induce LD (or SP) WITHOUT risking inso

Postby astrovineyard » 08 May 2015 04:59

Oh - I was imagining the sort of reality checks you have to do all the time so you'd dream of doing them, like trying to breathe through your nose if you are holding it with your fingers. Of course people might look at you funny if they see you do it.


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