sculcap, valerian et al / formula building

Discuss external aids which help you lucid dream including brainwave entrainment, supplements and herbs, lucid dream masks, and more.
User avatar
son of shennong
Posts: 44
Joined: 07 Apr 2015 16:44

sculcap, valerian et al / formula building

Postby son of shennong » 23 Apr 2015 19:46

I'm updating another thread I started & enlarging on its theme as:
1. The other thread veered way off course (which is totally cool)
2. I wanted to share some knowledge on building a formula or stack, if u prefer to call it that. Same thing.

Here are most of the herbs/supplements I've been juggling.

Some new herbs (for me).
Have used sculcap twice, valerian two times as well, passionflower once, hops once, german chamomile, a few times, Calea zacatechichi, a few times.

I've also been using wood betony, but I've been taking that herb for months.
Have taken blue lotus a few times as well.

As far as amino acids, I've taken glycine maybe six times now & I like it.
TMG I've restricted to daytime use, as I feel it may be too stimulating, & my point in taking glycine is to help me fall deeply (SWS) asleep.

Also taking some Chinese herbs, but w the exception of Lian Zhi (lotus seed), they've all been for daytime use. I may pick up some Suan Zao Ren, as it is considered first rate for sleeping in TCM.

Sublingual melatonin, 1mg dose for the most part.

Lastly, I'm using choline (as lecithin) & sometimes egg yolks, & occasionally galantamine. One can take choline from numerous sources. Not sure if I've hit upon the best yet. What I'm presently using seems to work.

Anyway, I'll go @ it here by discussing formula building 1st, then move on to some formulas I'm currently using, & of course, discuss their effects on me so far.

One aside, if you're under 40 yrs old, these formulas probably won't effect you the same way they do me. I'm in my 6th decade now, so a lot of what I'm seeking herbs to do might be irrelevant as far you go w sleeping & an active dream state. However, if you're reading this & you're over 40, combating a creeping insomnia or seeking to sleep deeper or dream more, this thread might be of some use.

Formula building, for me, is the art & science of synergy, combining ingredients so that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. The criteria I use in devising an effective formula is this; first, the formula should be good for the health of the body, or at the least, promote little or no ill effects. Any herb or supplement I think looks interesting I will research for mode of action & any known toxicities or side effects. Chief among toxicities I will look for is hepatotoxicity; you don't want to damage your liver. Very important internal organ & pretty much everything you orally ingest will move thru the liver first b4 it enters the bloodstream.
I also keep an eye out for too much synergy, for it is possible to have too much of a good thing. I also want my formulas, by & large, to be as palatable as I can make them. If I can bump them to full blown delicious, that's a good thing. I feel that the body automatically relaxes whenever the food we eat is delicious. And when the body relaxes, I believe it digests whatever you've ingested more fully.

So, this is what I'm shooting for; 2 formulae actually, one to help me fall asleep quicker & more deeply so that I can experience the health benefits of SWS, & two, a formula to help me dream more vividly & longer or experience a richer, more prolonged hypnagogic state.

The herbs I find myself drawn to for the purposes I just stated tend to fall into two categories; nervines & soporifics. Nervines affect the nervous system, soporifics encourage sleep.

Wood betony, sculcap, & chamomile fall into the nervine category, altho there is a slight overlap w chamomile IMO.
Valerian, hops, & passionflower are considered soporifics. Glycine, altho not an herb, I would call a soporific as well. Obviously the same for Melatonin.

Lecithin & galantamine are used to enhance brain activity while asleep or in a hypnagogic state, as this is a prerequisite for an active dreaming or hypnagogic state.

I'd get into modes of action for these herbs & supplements except some of that has already been posted.

So right now, when I take my formula/stack, I will take it twice, once before I turn in for the night, & a 2nd time, usually between 2 & 3 in the morning.

1st one is primarily for falling asleep & getting down to stage 3 & 4, where the body will release GH & tissue repair is facilitated. 2nd is for a good deep hypnagogia and/or vivid/lucid dreaming.

Lately, been going w glycine, betony, valerian, passionflower & lecithin in milk, mixed up in my nutribullet. May move to shaking them up in a lidded container, as due to its high rotational speed, the nutribullet also aerates the mixture. Consequently, some time soon after, I'll burp a bit. I'll also suck on 1 mg of Melatonin.
This seems to work for me. I enjoy the taste of this herbal/supplement formula too. I might drop the lectithin from this one, as I dream better the 2nd half of the night.

The 2nd formula has been glycine, lecithin, betony, & passionflower, & less of the valerian than the 1st time. This is when I will take the galantamine.

Results so far: I've only been doing this maybe a week & 1/2, but I am encouraged by the results so far & look forward to continuing to tweak it to promote more favorable results.

Side effects noted: Too much choline will increase flatulence. It, taken along w galantamine can promote insomnia, due to the active mental state it encourages.

That's about it for now.
Comments encouraged.
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau

User avatar
son of shennong
Posts: 44
Joined: 07 Apr 2015 16:44

Re: sculcap, valerian et al / formula building

Postby son of shennong » 26 Apr 2015 16:46

Update: Choline side effect noted. Some muscle cramping, location large intestine & calf muscles. Makes sense when you consider what choline/acetylcholine actually does with nerves. Remedied by lowering dose taken (now only between 2-3 AM). Also, have been taking melatonin sublingual 1 mg twice, once b4 I go to bed & 2nd time between 2-3.
Picked up some Holy Basil. Its mode of action seems to overlap Passionflower's, so possible synergy between them?
Stack continues to evolve & overall, I am pleased w its effectiveness to date, altho I believe there is more room for growth. Like this thread, which so far has garnered no responses. Maybe I will just fly away.
By way of a response, even bad poetry would be a welcome addition to this thread. @ least a couplet, snappy one liners don't count unless the sentence rhymes within itself.

sitting cold & mute upon his seat
pining for a comment nucking feat.
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau

User avatar
Limeth
Posts: 15
Joined: 14 Mar 2015 07:06
Location: Czech Republic

Re: sculcap, valerian et al / formula building

Postby Limeth » 16 May 2015 15:39

How much choline and galantamine do you use? I've never heard that choline could cause muscle cramping, I've googled a bit and found, that it should prevent muscle cramping, but that may be true only for lower doses.
Throwing away your dreams means throwing away 20% of your life.

User avatar
son of shennong
Posts: 44
Joined: 07 Apr 2015 16:44

Re: sculcap, valerian et al / formula building

Postby son of shennong » 20 May 2015 05:37

Limeth wrote:How much choline and galantamine do you use? I've never heard that choline could cause muscle cramping, I've googled a bit and found, that it should prevent muscle cramping, but that may be true only for lower doses.


I've cut back on my choline intake & currently am not experiencing any muscle cramping.
When I want to increase vivid/lucid dreams & remember them better, my current intake is maybe a few eggs during the day or for dinner (egg yolk is a good source of choline), then 1 tsp of lecithin, & perhaps 1/8th tsp of alpha-gpc @ between 2 & 3 AM w some b5 & b6 to help potentiate it.
The galantamine I currently am taking is an 8 mg dose, also between 2 & 3 AM.

Here's a nice thread on choline, where the side effect of muscle cramping is mentioned.
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/58249-all-about-choline/

You're right Lileth, dosage is very important. If you're taking supplements, IMO, getting the correct dosage is just as important as finding the right supplements & your timing in taking them.
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau

User avatar
son of shennong
Posts: 44
Joined: 07 Apr 2015 16:44

Re: sculcap, valerian et al / formula building

Postby son of shennong » 20 May 2015 05:38

Sorry Limeth;
In my reply to you, I mistakenly referred to you as Lileth.
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in."
Thoreau

User avatar
lucidity4life
Posts: 59
Joined: 19 Apr 2016 03:27

Re: sculcap, valerian et al / formula building

Postby lucidity4life » 23 Apr 2016 19:36

try the combo of ginkgo biloba and damiana guys it works great
botanicalguides.com - live love dream - Botanical Guides is a comprehensive guide to oneirogens and other ethnobotanicals a-z.


Return to “Lucid Dream Aids”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests