Confused

For general lucid chat - ask questions, share advice, set lucid dream challenges and explore the lucid realm together.
spuppet
Posts: 6
Joined: 25 Feb 2015 01:37

Confused

Postby spuppet » 10 May 2015 00:07

Hi there!

I'm not a total noob to lucid dreaming but I am coming across a few issues that are troubling me. Some context: I tend to only be able to lucid dream using the WBTB method, and I must've done it about 50-100 times now. However a lot of these are short lived and of little value (Except for practice). I have a few questions.

1) do most people, when entering a LD, feel a separation from their body? As opposed to just suddenly realising you're in a dream? I almost always have to "separate" myself to enter a LD.

2) a lot of the time I wake up next to my bed, just after I separate from my "real body". Is this just how my mind is processing everything? Occasionally I wake up somewhere very odd or dreamlike, but usually my dreamscapes are very normal and mundane ;/ any clues?

3) sometimes when I separate from my body initially, there are invisible walls forcing me to be hunched over, or something grappling around my neck and back. I usually just force myself to wake up from these LD but does anybody know the cause?

4) I sometimes hear a very loud pitch as a first start to enter the dream and separate from my body. What causes this, out of curiosity?

5) I cannot make out faces in my dreams. Should I work on my dream recall to improve this aspect in my LD.

6) my control is very limited, is the best advice to just practice this and find what works for me? I've noticed small improvements but nothing major. e.g. I suck at flying, I just fall and hit the ground over and over again.

I know these are a lot of questions, so I don't expect all to be answered straight away, but any advice will be hugely appreciated!!

Thanks everyone

Snaggle
Posts: 578
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 13:08

Re: Confused

Postby Snaggle » 10 May 2015 19:16

1) do most people, when entering a LD, feel a separation from their body? As opposed to just suddenly realising you're in a dream? I almost always have to "separate" myself to enter a LD.


No, but you can consciously create dream bodies while in hypnagogia and enter them, or simply possess dream characters in a dream When I do these things even though I know they're dream bodies I still have to leave them to get out of them and have never been able to simply wake up in them.

2) a lot of the time I wake up next to my bed, just after I separate from my "real body". Is this just how my mind is processing everything? Occasionally I wake up somewhere very odd or dreamlike, but usually my dreamscapes are very normal and mundane ;/ any clues?


IMO yes, though those who also have many of these dream OBE say that they're different than normal LD and some people think these are real OBE and in the dreamy ones one is going off to some astral plane or in all of them.

3) sometimes when I separate from my body initially, there are invisible walls forcing me to be hunched over, or something grappling around my neck and back. I usually just force myself to wake up from these LD but does anybody know the cause?


When one is in a dream the dream can be created: simply by ones mind; by something really happening in the real world or by something really happening in ones body. IMO all Sleep paralysis experiences are dreams inspired by REM Muscle Atonia. Your experiences are well within vanilla SP experiences. There are also people who thing that SP is real rather than a type of dream.

4) I sometimes hear a very loud pitch as a first start to enter the dream and separate from my body. What causes this, out of curiosity?


This is almost certainly a dream experience inspired by something that's really happening in your body when you're in REM dreams. There are two small bones in ones ears (the hammer and stirrup) that vibrate in each ear and only in REM dreams.

5) I cannot make out faces in my dreams. Should I work on my dream recall to improve this aspect in my LD.


This seems unique to you. One could simply will them to have faces that one can see or you could put specific faces you've visualized on them.

6) my control is very limited, is the best advice to just practice this and find what works for me? I've noticed small improvements but nothing major. e.g. I suck at flying, I just fall and hit the ground over and over again


Control is variable by dream, in some lucid dreams one will have no dream control and in some normal dreams one will have dream control without being lucid at all.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel

User avatar
taniaaust1
Posts: 2973
Joined: 07 Feb 2013 15:32
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Confused

Postby taniaaust1 » 10 May 2015 21:22

1) do most people, when entering a LD, feel a separation from their body? As opposed to just suddenly realising you're in a dream? I almost always have to "separate" myself to enter a LD


I can suddenly just appear fully in a dream, or other times I transfer more slowly over into a dream with some of my senses in the dream before others and I can feel my real body too while at the same time feeling myself at another location (the dream).

So my dream form of separation isn't at all like the one you are having though I have had that form you are describing at on rare occasions
..............

You may be having an OBE rather then a dream.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

User avatar
Highlander
Posts: 432
Joined: 14 Mar 2013 00:31
Location: Portugal

Re: Confused

Postby Highlander » 11 May 2015 22:38

I constantly have quite the same experience as you, spuppet.

Most of the time, my LDs are OBE-like. I start to feel vibrations, hear some buzzing sounds and i start to detach from my body. Then, i get out of bed, all in the dream. I'm on my room (it's close to reality, as it always has some different objects). Them i'm off to explore. I always open my windows and there's always a new landscape "outside" to discover. I love this kind of LDs.

spuppet
Posts: 6
Joined: 25 Feb 2015 01:37

Re: Confused

Postby spuppet » 15 May 2015 22:14

Thanks to all of the replies. It's cleared a lot up.

Snaggle wrote:This seems unique to you. One could simply will them to have faces that one can see or you could put specific faces you've visualized on them.


I know who i think the people are, say my father or mother, but I cannot actually see detail in their faces. Anybody else notice this?

Also, to do with dream OBE compared with standard LD, what's the difference. Is there one? Or is it just the way I enter the dream (Wbtb --> feel my body separate slowly --> enter dream one piece at a time, etc)??

Highlander wrote:I constantly have quite the same experience as you, spuppet.


Yes highlander it seems like we have very similar dreams. I wonder why ours are like that - they seem quite tame and very "life-like" with a few oddities here and there. Very normal as opposed to dream-like and wacky. I rarely have other types of LDs but I do get them. What other types of LD do you have, and do you think I'm capable of having different ones as well.

EDIT: I do enjoy my "OBE" style LD, but I'm wanting a bit more craziness and creativity in them. Should I experiment with different methods to try and achieve this? Or is it just the way my mind has LDs currently?

ALSO my recent LD have been very short lived and frustrating. i'm always caught between the real physical world and the dream world. I feel like I'm getting WORSE at LDing. Any tips?? Thanks folks!

User avatar
taniaaust1
Posts: 2973
Joined: 07 Feb 2013 15:32
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Confused

Postby taniaaust1 » 16 May 2015 08:07

spuppet wrote:Thanks to all of the replies. It's cleared a lot up.

Snaggle wrote:This seems unique to you. One could simply will them to have faces that one can see or you could put specific faces you've visualized on them.


I know who i think the people are, say my father or mother, but I cannot actually see detail in their faces. Anybody else notice this?


If you are seeing people out of body, their forms may not be as clear as our astral energy doesn't necessarily even need to take up a form. When Im astral I either tend to take up a human form or I take up a spirit ball form..so would be seen without a face.

Nearly everything in your post has strong connections to astral projection (stronger then probably the LD stuff).

its up to you though to work out what your experiences are or if they are a bit of both.

Also, to do with dream OBE compared with standard LD, what's the difference. Is there one? Or is it just the way I enter the dream (Wbtb --> feel my body separate slowly --> enter dream one piece at a time, etc)??


Some experiences are commonly connected to the astral plane (a noise when getting out of body, vibrations, finding one self firstly in ones bedroom or feeling on leaving the body etc etc) but what can make things confusing is that you can experience by a dream anything on your mind at all or the things you've read or what you think about something. It's possible to dream you are having an OBE.

The difference is..

DREAMS are done through the human mental body... astral projectors and some very good psychics can see a persons dreams and thoughts in their aura around the dreamers head. (dreams though do also impact upon the astral plane some too but anything dreamed, its impact on there is very short lived. eg I had an OBE and saw my daughters dream imprint on our house..she'd dreamed she had been opening presents in the lounge room so I saw the astral imprint of childrens presents all over that room but that being a dream imprint would only have lasted a short time in the astral plane).

Astral Plane.. where one OBEs too. Everything in our plane has made impressions on the astral plane.. past, current and future. The longer something is in one place in our plane.. the more stable the imprint of that thing is on the astral plane eg you will have your bedroom set up how it usually is in the astral plane... and hence the more likely someone is to see it. The human emotional body also imprints upon it.. the stronger the emotions, the stronger the astral imprint and the easier it is to pick up in the astral plane.

Your dream world isn't "real"..your dreams are "your own" mental creations..

the astral plane though, all physical things have their astral counterparts there.. eg you are always in that plane actually just like your physical body does not leave the physical plane just cause you are asleep..but just not aware of it unless you went OBE. When you are asleep.. an astral projector may see your astral body floating or standing near to your physical one unless you are aware some and controlling this body.

Humans move their consciousness about to our various bodies eg you may have your waking consciousness in the physical, in a LD (in the mental body), or in the astral world if truly OBE. "You" (not your body you) are always somewhere. (While in reality you are in all these places at once but just aware of one at a time).

Being a real place the astral plane if OBE.. it is possible to chat there to "real people" , it is also possible to check things out in regards to our physical plane (cause everything physical has an astral counterpart) eg Your boyfriend/girlfriend are they having an affair and hence why not home? If you are an experienced astral projector, it isn't too hard to check out their current location and what they are actually physically up to.

You may also find other things out there eg My ex and I had a fight cause I got accused of physically spying on him.. what had really happened was I was astral and had seen something I wasn't supposed to see (and he didn't believe me that I found out that way. I saw a gift voucher from a shop.. in real life till I read it, I didn't even know this shop did gift vouchers Unknown to me till I saw this, he'd brought and he'd hid it on the top of wardrobe and I saw "something" sitting on that wardrobe when I was up floating by the ceiling above my body so floated over and checked it out.. not being aware it was something that boyfriend didn't want me seeing).

Of cause dreams aren't real, you can kill your dream characters or whatever. You start doing things like that thou in the real astral plane where there are real beings rather then just your mental creations.. you may get far more then you bargained for. The astral plane needs to be treated with respect).

You pinch someone while you are astral, I've heard that at times that can actually leave a bruise on their physical body (its not something I've though played around with) .. where as with a dream.. I can murder my mother without consequence!

I personally like LD better then OBE as I find OBE not as exciting (though of cause it can depending on where you choose to go) .. eg with OBE you often have to go and search for others (I rarely see others when Im OBE) rather then just easily just create a DC. My subconsciousness creations (dreams) keep me entertained more and with a lot more surprises. Ive also got myself into too much trouble with OBE in the past due to not being sensible while out and my lack of knowing much about that. I prefer being unlimited in what I can do without consquences so prefer dreams.
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

spuppet
Posts: 6
Joined: 25 Feb 2015 01:37

Re: Confused

Postby spuppet » 16 May 2015 11:33

Well yes I suppose it sounds more like an OBE. But I just assumed this was what lucid dreaming was like. I have very limited control (I assumed that was my conscious holding me back) e.g. I can summon dream characters easily and I find it hard to fly very well.

I had about 50-100 of these "separations" which I assumed were LDs and I still don't see myself improving. It's quite frustrating. I believe these aren't real life astral projections, but the way I intepret LDs. I feel like I need to go back to square one :( :( :(

User avatar
Highlander
Posts: 432
Joined: 14 Mar 2013 00:31
Location: Portugal

Re: Confused

Postby Highlander » 16 May 2015 22:10

spuppet wrote:Yes highlander it seems like we have very similar dreams. I wonder why ours are like that - they seem quite tame and very "life-like" with a few oddities here and there. Very normal as opposed to dream-like and wacky.


But they are not "life-like" if i don't want to. They are only at the beginning, when i see my room. But when i open the windows... man... there's always a new world to explore. It's always different. Once i saw a futuristic city, other times i saw a farm, a beach, apocalyptic scenario...
I just climb to my window, jump and go explore this world.

User avatar
taniaaust1
Posts: 2973
Joined: 07 Feb 2013 15:32
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Confused

Postby taniaaust1 » 18 May 2015 16:15

spuppet wrote:Well yes I suppose it sounds more like an OBE. But I just assumed this was what lucid dreaming was like. I have very limited control (I assumed that was my conscious holding me back) e.g. I can summon dream characters easily and I find it hard to fly very well.

I had about 50-100 of these "separations" which I assumed were LDs and I still don't see myself improving. It's quite frustrating. I believe these aren't real life astral projections, but the way I intepret LDs. I feel like I need to go back to square one :( :( :(


If you can summon DCs you are certainly doing some lucid dreaming there. Its quite normal for one to find it hard to do "some" things in a LD. LOTS of people struggle with flying.

Ive just only started flying in my lucid dreams without an aid to do so and Ive been doing LD for a very long time. I still struggle eg low down flying and last night I crash into a crowd standing on the ground when flying
The only thing to fear is the fear itself

Snaggle
Posts: 578
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 13:08

Re: Confused

Postby Snaggle » 20 May 2015 09:08

Thanks to all of the replies. It's cleared a lot up.

Snaggle wrote:
This seems unique to you. One could simply will them to have faces that one can see or you could put specific faces you've visualized on them.



I know who i think the people are, say my father or mother, but I cannot actually see detail in their faces. Anybody else notice this?

Also, to do with dream OBE compared with standard LD, what's the difference. Is there one? Or is it just the way I enter the dream (Wbtb --> feel my body separate slowly --> enter dream one piece at a time, etc)??


Dead loved ones, whether human or animal, sometimes appear in both normal and lucid dreams. I have not experienced or seen any good evidence for them being more than dream characters and I would not assume they're "Astral entities" just because you can't see them clearly. It's always a good thing when one sees them and welcome in any dream even if they're just dream characters.

OBEs are a complicated subject, as there are many types of them. They need not happen while one is asleep or even when resting. Occultisms and religions usually say they're real and they're done with multiple types of bodies. Tania is using a very simple model of bodies created by Theosophy and by much older Ceremonial Magick. Other religions have much more complicated models the Ancient Egyptian one being the most complicated. They don't agree on either then number of bodies or what they're like except for the first two one: the physical body and and the breath body/pranic body which inclines me too think that they two are types of dreams, though that is not more than suggestive evidence, less good than hearsay evidence, so as a skeptic I can't close the book on the other things they might be.

I'm also influenced by the experience and opinions on their experiences of Tantric Yogins to whom OBE and Lucid Dream yogas are distinct yogas. In the case of Tibetan Buddhism the OBE yoga (Phowa) is suppose to be the projection of separate energy bodies and happens while wide awake. There have been as yeast a million Tibetan monks practicing both Milam (LD yoga) and Phowa, I'm not rejecting their opinions that are grounded in experience without better evidence, even though I think they might be dream variants too.
"There is only one God and his name is Death.
And there is only one thing we say to death "not today"
- Syrio Forel


Return to “General Lucid Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests