Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

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Pareidolia
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Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Pareidolia » 21 Sep 2015 02:33

Greetings,

I see the amount of people inside the community of Lucid Dreaming is growing by the day, so I'm aware that this thread may be taken the wrong way. So please note, I'm not trying to slate you or anyone as a Lucid Dreamer. I'm not trying to patronise anyone and I most certainly don't want to come across in a condescending manner. I am a Lucid Dreamer myself though I do not attempt this by intention, they just happen. Almost every night and with great length.

But please be wary, dear dreamer. Intentionally attempting to induce lucid dreams can have severely negative consequences. Dreams are a very peculiar matter indeed but we do know quite a lot about them.
Here is how dreams work and this is by proven fact:
Dreams, in any sort, be it noise or images, are a way for your subconcious mind to process and sort matters that your concious mind would not. This why one would tell another to "sleep over it" if they are facing a difficult decision. A mind can be clouded and sleep and dreams are the way for your subconcious mind to become clear.
In a common dream or nightmare, you experience what your subconcious mind is processing and to help it do so, you must go where your mind takes you. But intentionally attempting to take control of the dream, so your dream may reach a lucid state, is unhealthy as your subconcious mind won't be able to shut down properly so it cannot process nor sort what it needs to.

Doing so may result in you waking up tired, losing productivity (doing bad in school or at work) and your thinking capacity being lowered or your thinking order being scrambled. (As an example, you may notice a disturbance in the subconcious thinking order when you or someone else misspeaks. For example, instead of saying "Flying bird", saying "Blying Fird". This is a result of the subconcious mind being unable to process what it needs to.)

This may seem mild but there are also more extreme consequences that also do occur quite often with lucid dreames.

Insomnia - Being unable to sleep at all as a result of overly exhausting your subconcious mind, reaching a state of sleep deprivity where your brain simply can't shut down.
Depression - Being so absorbed by your lucid dreams that real life will seem like a saddening bore. Becoming obsessively attached to what lucid dreams may offer you can lead to you being dissatisfied with real life so much you'd rather sleep an eternity.

I'm not saying that these things will happen to all of you and I'm certainly not trying to keep you from lucid dreaming altogether, I believe you as a human being are entitled to do whatever you wish (as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else). I just don't see enough awareness of the consequences of lucid dreaming. And I figured that of course you wouldn't be made aware of this by this website because it impacts the sales rating. So I felt obliged to share this with you guys, so you know where you stand, and so you can decide for yourself what's best for you.

May your dreams be as sweet as your soul.
Death to be a dignity, execution's lost philosophy. All my atrocities
come by way of reciprocity. And reason is treason.

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Summerlander
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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Summerlander » 21 Sep 2015 11:38

There are many fallacies here which I don't have time to address at the moment as I'm off to work but I will. I'll leave the following comment here for you to ruminate. Normal sleep and ordinary dreaming does not sort out your stress, PTSD, or even depression. Lucid dreaming, however, has been found to have therapeutic potential. I recommend Stephen LaBerge's literature on the subject. Secondly, here is a thread which shows how lucid dreaming is linked to meditation--a mental exercise which has been scientifically established to be beneficial as it develops useful regions of the brain and can make one happier:

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.xcom/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16442

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Pareidolia
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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Pareidolia » 22 Sep 2015 14:08

Greetings,

Thanks for the reply, but I didn't say sleep and dreams would cure stress, PTSD or depression. I said lucid dreaming can actually cause depression. Yes, you might feel happier, inside the dreams. But outside of it there's a chance you can experience an element of dissatisfaction with your waking life because of lucid dreaming. If you induce lucid dreams on intention then your mind won't shut down properly. You need to give it the rest it needs to regain energy. If you don't let it process and sort its thoughts or whatever else is occupying it, you risk a lot of consequences.

People who excessively commit to lucid dreams have a much higher chance of getting Cotard's disorder, Complicated bereavement disorder, Capgras disorder and a whole range of other delusions and disorders. This is because excessively committing to lucid dreams can get your subconcious mind off tracks completely. You probably wouldn't realise this of course because the state of your concious mind could still be healthy at that time. This is besides the fact of risking getting addicted to lucid dreaming.

I realise this probably seems far-fetched and unbelievable. If so then just don't let it bother you too much. Just know that you're your own person and you can choose for yourself what you want.

Ta-ta. :geek:

PS: The link in your reply is broken. You probably mean ".com" not ".xcom". But it's clever of you to advertise yourself for more publicity. Although, your thread has a few minor reccuring flaws. Which I don't want to point out here in risk of going off-thread.
Last edited by Pareidolia on 23 Sep 2015 15:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Summerlander » 23 Sep 2015 12:51

Well, I promised to address your fallacious points so here it is ... :mrgreen:

Pareidolia wrote:I see the amount of people inside the community of Lucid Dreaming is growing by the day, so I'm aware that this thread may be taken the wrong way.


I don't know about your thread being taken the 'wrong way', but the affirmation of its topic can certainly be shown to be false, and its debatable content, quite flimsy. I don't know if you are trying to build yourself a reputation as a distinct contrarian here, but, this route will backfire on you if you are uninformed.

Pareidolia wrote:I am a Lucid Dreamer myself though I do not attempt this by intention, they just happen. Almost every night and with great length.


According to your thesis, you should be worried, then! :-D

Pareidolia wrote:But please be wary, dear dreamer. Intentionally attempting to induce lucid dreams can have severely negative consequences.


Actually, I would argue that the opposite is true; particularly where the WILD method—applied with the wake-back-to-bed technique—is concerned. If you still can't see why that is, you obviously have not looked into the explanatory thread I provided above—including valuable feedback from commenters—and you know nothing about mindful meditation (which has been scientifically established to develop brain matter in beneficial ways). Here is a pertinent excerpt from the thread in question (which, as you assumed, doesn't sell anything, by the way :-D ):

'Worry and (to a lesser degree) ambition should not feature strongly in any approach. Be calm and tolerant of mistakes. If you awake prematurely without having been disturbed in the real world, you have most likely allowed yourself to be distracted by thoughts. If you fall off the taut rope, as it were, your mind has wandered. You can probably see now how the practice of lucid dreaming is akin to meditation -- especially where its maintenance is concerned -- and the two certainly interrelate. (Remember the times when your goal was to induce a WILD, and you noticed how your mind persistently strays from a point of focus into a maelstrom of noisy thinking -- this, in the induction of lucid dreams as much as meditation, already is a great leap in recognising the complex nature of the human mind.) So, before attempting any of the techniques I'm about to highlight, one must be serene and curb internal dialogue (or "monologue" if you want to pedantically emphasise that one talks to oneself in one's mind).'

As you can see, the WILD method of induction—where one perennially returns one's awareness to a point of focus every time the mind is found to have strayed—is a type of meditation which helps the practitioner to be grounded in the present moment until the dream state is reached. (Because of this type of meditation, one enters the dream state lucidly and a type of hybrid phase state which compounds waking consciousness and REM sleep manifests around the 40 Hz bandwidth.) And if you are still worried, remember that the best lucid dreaming results happen in the morning after about 6 hours of sleep—when your mind has already gone through quite a few sleep cycles and the subconscious has not been lucidly probed. :-D

Since you don't even induce lucid dreams, you shouldn't really get to talk about methods. Sorry to be blunt but you are simply inexperienced—and I take it that you don't even get to endure your involuntary lucid dreams long enough to enjoy the perks of its cerebral phase state since you deem it to be unhealthy and therefore something to be swiftly terminated or avoided altogether. (So I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'at great length'—in your mind this could simply mean long enough to do damage.)

Pareidolia wrote:Dreams, in any sort, be it noise or images, are a way for your subconcious mind to process and sort matters that your concious mind would not. This why one would tell another to "sleep over it" if they are facing a difficult decision. A mind can be clouded and sleep and dreams are the way for your subconcious mind to become clear.


You have just shot yourself in the foot with this one! :lol:

If, according to you, it doesn't matter what shape or form dreams take (as you seem to imply with 'noise' and 'images') then it shouldn't matter if they are vivid and one is aware of their true nature whilst experiencing them—such as in lucid dreaming. In fact, it is even better since you can potentially take charge and be creative whilst having them! The subconscious mind will do what it has to do anyway.

Secondly, the etymology of 'sleep over it' has nothing to do with one's mental well-being in the sense that you implied and shouldn't be regarded as any kind of evidence for the hypothetically pernicious nature of lucid dreams. 'Sleep over it' could be taken as an instruction to rest and a solution might come to you in the morning; or, if you can't consciously formulate a solution, perhaps the abstractionism of your subconscious will stumble upon it. Allowing a part of your mind to think 'outside the box' to solve certain problems has nothing to do with one's mental health. Solutions have also been devised in the lucid dream state as one gets to consciously see a portion of what arises from the subconscious in great detail—and perhaps the first people who came up with the phrase 'sleep over it' were lucid dreamers. Who knows! One thing I can attest to: lucid dreaming is a great bridge, as it were, between the conscious and subconscious; so much so that the lucid dreamer can directly request answers and insights from those deepest regions of the mind where thinking happens unconventionally. If you were a serious oneironaut, you would know this.

Pareidolia wrote:In a common dream or nightmare, you experience what your subconcious mind is processing and to help it do so, you must go where your mind takes you.


This is the antithesis of meditation and is, potentially, harmful if followed in all situations. There are individuals—in particular, soldiers with PTSD—who are tormented by nightmares of war in such a perennial way as to further their depression. Lucid dreaming, on the other hand, can get these patients to face their fears and turn the nightmare into something positive. As a tool, lucid dreaming—like meditation—can aid the quest of knowing thyself. The more you know how your mind works, the more you can manage it. You cannot carry out any sort of meticulous exploration during ordinary dreams if as an observer you are unable to think rationally and mistake the illogical for the logical. So no, don't always go where the mind takes you—especially if you are a kid at school and you have a propensity for daydreaming; it may cost you a detention. :mrgreen:

Pareidolia wrote:But intentionally attempting to take control of the dream, so your dream may reach a lucid state, is unhealthy as your subconcious mind won't be able to shut down properly so it cannot process nor sort what it needs to.


Absolute poppycock! First of all, lucid dreaming does not equate with dream control (although the two can go together). Secondly, you might as well say that dream incubation—which potentially begets desired, non-lucid dreams—is also harmful; but no adverse effects have ever been observed which are directly linked to such methods. By your reasoning, one shouldn't even attempt to direct one's thinking in the waking state. :-)

Pareidolia wrote:Doing so may result in you waking up tired, losing productivity (doing bad in school or at work) and your thinking capacity being lowered or your thinking order being scrambled. (As an example, you may notice a disturbance in the subconcious thinking order when you or someone else misspeaks. For example, instead of saying "Flying bird", saying "Blying Fird". This is a result of the subconcious mind being unable to process what it needs to.)


I don't know where you got the bunkum that forms much of your specious argument, but I can assure you that, after nearly a decade of practice, lucid dreaming seems to have improved me as a person in general. And I always wake up happy, refreshed, invigorated and buzzing from a lengthy lucid dream. Perhaps 'Blying Fird', in your case, is the result of avoiding lucid dreams and allowing the subconscious mind's unconvential thinking to dictate? Or go easy on that wine. :mrgreen:

Pareidolia wrote:This may seem mild but there are also more extreme consequences that also do occur quite often with lucid dreames.


Such as? I haven't experienced any adverse effects.

Pareidolia wrote:Insomnia - Being unable to sleep at all as a result of overly exhausting your subconcious mind, reaching a state of sleep deprivity where your brain simply can't shut down.
Depression - Being so absorbed by your lucid dreams that real life will seem like a saddening bore. Becoming obsessively attached to what lucid dreams may offer you can lead to you being dissatisfied with real life so much you'd rather sleep an eternity.


It's funny you mention insomnia because the majority of neophytes fall asleep during induction from the wake-initiated standpoint! :lol:

Insomnia could occur in those individuals who become obsessed with thinking about lucid dreaming—an approach which is always discouraged (refer to my link for this). In these cases, it is not the lucid dreaming that is harmful, but the individual's disposition. Such people are not great practitioners as their obsession impedes practice anyway. Many have never even experienced a lucid dream but have simply fallen in love with the idea of being awake in one that they end up daydreaming all night about the fantasy. They could just as easily have the same unfavourable approach in other areas of their lives. One can love chocolate, my friend, but everything is best in moderation. There is a time and place for everything and lucid dreaming isn't limited to escapism—it has its applicability to waking life, too.

Pareidolia wrote:I'm not saying that these things will happen to all of you and I'm certainly not trying to keep you from lucid dreaming altogether, I believe you as a human being are entitled to do whatever you wish (as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else).


How convenient and kind of you! :mrgreen:

Pareidolia wrote:I just don't see enough awareness of the consequences of lucid dreaming.


Perhaps because the consequences are nonexistent? A mind constantly searching for what is not there is one with an unhealthy penchant for conspiracy theories.

Pareidolia wrote:And I figured that of course you wouldn't be made aware of this by this website because it impacts the sales rating. So I felt obliged to share this with you guys, so you know where you stand, and so you can decide for yourself what's best for you.


What? :lol:

You do know that needs—such as food, drink, and medication—are for sale too, right? You do know that truly harmful products, such as tabacco (whose manufacturer admits its lethality on the packaging), are also for sale?

Wow, you are the first one to have encountered the 'truth' and without you the members of this website would be lost. (They can't possibly see for themselves the effects of lucid dreaming; they never explore their own minds; and they have never read expert literature.) Sarcasm intended ... 8-)

Pareidolia wrote:Thanks for the reply, but I didn't say sleep and dreams would cure stress, PTSD or depression. I said lucid dreaming can actually cause depression.


I never said you did. I made the point as part of my refutal. I would go as far as asseverating that lucid dreaming can therapeutically counteract mental afflictions. I also deny your claim that lucid dreaming causes depression. (As refuted above.)

Pareidolia wrote:If you don't let it process and sort its thoughts or whatever else is occupying it, you risk a lot of consequences. This has been proven by research done in 2006.


What research is this? Show me a link. I see three possibilities here: A) the source is pseudo-scientific; B) you misinterpreted the actual determination of an obscure study; C) there is no research—you're lying.

Pareidolia wrote:People who excessively commit to lucid dreams have a much higher chance of getting...


Key word: excessively. As explained above, the moderate approach is advised and the same goes for everything else. I love chocolate but I won't eat it on a daily basis: a little can boost morale; in excess, obesity is incurred.

As regards lucid dreaming, it is the obsession of the idea that's 'unhealthy'—not the desired state of mind. If the practice of lucid dreaming is mostly beneficial when carried out moderately, how can one deem it noxious altogether let alone the mental state itself?

Pareidolia wrote:People who excessively commit to lucid dreams have a much higher chance of getting Cotard's disorder, Complicated bereavement disorder, Capgras disorder and a whole range of other delusions and disorders. This is because excessively committing to lucid dreams can get your subconcious mind off tracks completely. You probably wouldn't realise this of course because the state of your concious mind could still be healthy at that time. This is besides the fact of risking getting addicted to lucid dreaming.


Cotard's disorder bears no connection to lucid dreaming. In fact, mental illnesses of this sort are usually found in individuals who have trouble being lucid in waking life—such as schizophrenics. The same goes for the other two conditions which couldn't be more removed from the topic. Your claims are unfounded and confounded ... hence your specious argument. :-)

Pareidolia wrote:PS: The link in your reply is broken. You probably mean ".com" not ".xcom". But it's clever of you to advertise yourself for more publicity. Although, your thread has a few minor reccuring flaws. Which I don't want to point out here in risk of going off-thread.


The link is not broken and there is no '.com' or '.xcom' in it. (It is a link to an earlier thread of this website.) If you are having trouble opening it, simply copy and paste it to the web search. I'm not advertising myself in any way, either; if I am, not as much as you here with your strawman. :-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Pareidolia » 23 Sep 2015 16:03

Greetings,

Some of your points stand with foundation, some of them are quirks you've made at random.
My quest for awareness was, as I said, not to be misinterpreted. The fact that lucid dreamers have a higher chance for these consequences to occur, does not at all mean one should worry.
Also, you pointed out to me that I should be worried, in which case I'm afraid you've misread yet again. I said taking control of your dream by intention can have negative effects. I said that I however, seem to have lucid dreams without intending to take control at all. Hence why I'm not as reluctant to get the negative side effects.

The fact you feel refreshed on a morning after a lucid dream is great for you, but that is for you as an individual and it does not represent every lucid dreamer on a greater scale. You're a mere speck, a grain of sand on a beach.

The paragraph about disorders and delusions, again misinterpreted. Even an excessive intended lucid dreamer will not see these effects happen if they live safely. Excessive intended lucid dreaming only lays the roots for them to happen. An intended lucid dream addict who has to do reality checks every 30 minutes to determine whether they're dreaming or not, has more chance of the named disorders to trigger once they are gravely wounded in, let's say, an accident, be it at work or in traffic, which could potentially trigger Cotard's disorder. Or if they lose a dearly loved one, they have slightly increased chance of getting Complicated Bereavement Disorder. This mostly depends on the mental strength of the individual and how much they intend to lucid dream. Say if they do this every night for over 10 years, they have an increased chance of this being triggered.

To many, this may seem irrelevent to mention as the chances of contracting it are low. But to the wary and cautious, they may want to know where excessive intended lucid dreaming could potentially take them.


Pareidolia wrote:
People who excessively commit to lucid dreams have a much higher chance of getting...


Key word: excessively. As explained above, the moderate approach is advised and the same goes for everything else. I love chocolate but I won't eat it on a daily basis: a little can boost morale; in excess, obesity is incurred.

As regards lucid dreaming, it is the obsession of the idea that's 'unhealthy'—not the desired state of mind. If the practice of lucid dreaming is mostly beneficial when carried out moderately, how can one deem it noxious altogether let alone the mental state itself?


Thanks for pointing out that a moderate approach is the best approach, it is the main thing I wanted to point out with this entire thread, so I'm glad we're on the same page.

Pareidolia wrote:
I'm not saying that these things will happen to all of you and I'm certainly not trying to keep you from lucid dreaming altogether, I believe you as a human being are entitled to do whatever you wish (as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else).


How convenient and kind of you! :mrgreen:


Thanks for the compliment, though surely you intended to come across patronising, but I've long since grown beyond that stage of immaturity. But thanks nonetheless.

Pareidolia wrote:
Thanks for the reply, but I didn't say sleep and dreams would cure stress, PTSD or depression. I said lucid dreaming can actually cause depression.


I never said you did. I made the point as part of my refutal. I would go as far as asseverating that lucid dreaming can therapeutically counteract mental afflictions. I also deny your claim that lucid dreaming causes depression. (As refuted above.)


Never said I did?

Normal sleep and ordinary dreaming does not sort out your stress, PTSD, or even depression.


Is what you said in reply to my original thread. As if in the thread I have said sleep sorts out common disorders. Which I didn't.

Pareidolia wrote:
This may seem mild but there are also more extreme consequences that also do occur quite often with lucid dreames.


Such as? I haven't experienced any adverse effects.


Again, only about you as an individual rather than speaking of a global spectrum.

Pareidolia wrote:
If you don't let it process and sort its thoughts or whatever else is occupying it, you risk a lot of consequences. This has been proven by research done in 2006.


What research is this? Show me a link. I see three possibilities here: A) the source is pseudo-scientific; B) you misinterpreted the actual determination of an obscure study; C) there is no research—you're lying.


The last sentence in your quote I have later added, but after searching for a link to add with it, without result (The research page is either lost in pages and pages of Google search or the original has been deleted), hence I have later removed that sentence as I didn't have the ability to back it up. I would gladly refer to Wikipedia but referring to Wikipedia is like hiring a known con-man as your accountant.

As for all your other points, you will see that if you read the rest of my posts that it becomes rather clear what you misinterpreted. I never denied the fact that Lucid Dreams do have a lot of positive effects. In this post I was merely focusing on the negative. I also never publicly admitted to having any of the negative side effects.
I'm glad for you that you haven't met any negative side effects while intending to lucid dream and I'm also glad that we both know the main thought behind all this is that moderation matters.
I just hoped you would've been a bit more mature about it, being sarcastic and patronising is a fool's argument. I refuse to let you degrade me to that level.

Toodles! :P
Death to be a dignity, execution's lost philosophy. All my atrocities
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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Summerlander » 23 Sep 2015 22:34

Some of your points stand with foundation, some of them are quirks you've made at random.


Care to point them out, love? :mrgreen:

My quest for awareness was, as I said, not to be misinterpreted.


Either I misinterpreted your message or you did not convey it well ... :geek:

The fact you feel refreshed on a morning after a lucid dream is great for you, but that is for you as an individual and it does not represent every lucid dreamer on a greater scale. You're a mere speck, a grain of sand on a beach.


Sure. That's why the majority of the members here are complaining that lucid dreaming is affecting thrm psychologically. And this 'grain of sand' is the head of the Phase Management Department at Michael Raduga's OOBE Research Center who has conducted and coordinated experiences with thousands of subjects--none of which reported problems with controlling lucid dreaming. :geek:

So you are talking to someone who knows and won't hide in the guise of humble opinion, chinese whispers, and the pretense of partial agreement as an excuse for an ephemerally lazy discourse. 8-)

By the way, your topic still reads, 'Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy'. Did you intend to attract readers with a sensational heading? If so, it's a bit misleading for someone who is quick to accuse a dissenter of misinterpretation, don't you think? :-)

An intended lucid dream addict who has to do reality checks every 30 minutes to determine whether they're dreaming or not, has more chance of the named disorders to trigger once they are gravely wounded in, let's say, an accident, be it at work or in traffic, which could potentially trigger Cotard's disorder. Or if they lose a dearly loved one, they have slightly increased chance of getting Complicated Bereavement Disorder. This mostly depends on the mental strength of the individual and how much they intend to lucid dream. Say if they do this every night for over 10 years, they have an increased chance of this being triggered.


I still don't see a link to a scientific paper highlighting peer-reviewed research. I just see more unfounded animadversion on lucid dreaming.

Never said I did?


No, never said you did. You can re-read that quote a thousand times and you won't find yourself there. I've explained to you why I mentioned what ordinary dreams don't do in contrast to lucid dreaming precisely to highlight why your argument is fallacious. We can do this all night, my dear! :-D

The last sentence in your quote I have later added, but after searching for a link to add with it, without result (The research page is either lost in pages and pages of Google search or the original has been deleted), hence I have later removed that sentence as I didn't have the ability to back it up. I would gladly refer to Wikipedia but referring to Wikipedia is like hiring a known con-man as your accountant.


Again, I feel unable to contain my sarcasm: How convenient of you! :mrgreen:

I just hoped you would've been a bit more mature about it, being sarcastic and patronising is a fool's argument. I refuse to let you degrade me to that level.


It's called ridicule, my dear. A fool's argument is that which is asserted without evidence. You made a claim and I still don't see a link. (Only the editing omission of things you said which couldn't be empirically backed.) And I'm sorry if you felt degraded--I only intended to degrade the specious argument, not its author. ;-)

Toodles! :mrgreen:

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Pareidolia » 24 Sep 2015 04:18

Greetings,

Fair enough. You won this debate. My only source of knowledge is what came from friends (of friends, of friends, of friends and so on). So I don't have any statistics or websites to back up what I do know. Resulting in only wasting everyone's time in a debate I'd eventually have to give up anyway out of sheer defficiency of "black-and-white" proof. When it comes down to it, all I have is what I've seen, heard and experienced. You have funding to do research and results.

I had fun reading your comments and searching for arguments against them, but I simply haven't done research on thousands of people as I don't have that kind of funding. Inflation, hooray! :D

If you could all kindly report this to Rebecca to get this thread deleted so no one else will get information that has been found wrong. I'm not sure how to delete threads. :lol:
Death to be a dignity, execution's lost philosophy. All my atrocities
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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Summerlander » 24 Sep 2015 08:37

It would be a shame to delete this. It's quite information with all its facts and assumptions ... :mrgreen:

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Pareidolia » 25 Sep 2015 01:37

It's alright, I just figured it was about time the discussion stopped seeing as the "grain of sand on a beach" comment hit you in a tender spot. Otherwise you wouldnt've pulled out with stating your occupation and how many people you've conducted research upon to reassure yourself and everyone that you are of vital importance. But let me tell you, every grain of sand is important, no matter what their function is. It's that together, they stop the sea from flooding the land. Dunes forever!

Metaphorical speech, for the win. 8-)
Death to be a dignity, execution's lost philosophy. All my atrocities
come by way of reciprocity. And reason is treason.

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Re: Lucid Dreams are Unhealthy.

Postby Summerlander » 25 Sep 2015 06:54

It had to be done--the reassurance that I'm a worthy grain of sand on a beach. (And note that I didn't egregiously use the word 'mere'--as in 'mere speck'--so as to not render my reassurance oxymoronic.)

Pareidolia wrote:You're a mere speck, a grain of sand on a beach


Mount Everest forever ... :mrgreen:

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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