id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Discuss paranormal activity linked with sleep and dreams, such as out of body experiences, astral projection and psychic dreams.
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Lonely Tear
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id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Lonely Tear » 08 Oct 2015 14:01

DeJaVu
You have dreamed of something.. you have forgot about it... and the moment it happened's, you will remember that you dreamed of it.

iv had lucid dreams for about 3 years now, and i have experienced few of thise, some say that you cant have DJV while lucid dreaming simply for the fact that you are in controll. but some experiences i had say otherwise.

i have had 4 of thise in the past, and ill try to discribe them, in return id like to hear your opinion on the subject.

My very first DJV came about 3 years ago, about 4 months after i had my very first lucid dream, and it is dificult to call it a DJV as lots of todays dreams are linked to it. lots of my dreams at a time, where about different dream characters (they are mostly part humans, part animals.) i had alot of adventures with them over the time, i explored their world, made mark on it and i come back to it even today. but one thing that shocked me back then was when i realised it was a DJV of a sort. a game called Starbound came up, friend of mine told me about it, and when i took a closer look at it, it was a game, based around space exploration that had you chose betwen different races, more importantly, 3 races in that game are nearly identical to 3 characters from my dreams. i got my hands on the game and was able to create my dream characters in it and they where nearly identical. what made me think this was a DJV is that i have meet my characters about 3 months before i saw that game, i have never seen or heard anything about this game before, yet it contained parts of my dream adventures ...

i will talk about other DJVs anther time.. fell free to share your own DJVs and / or tell me what you think about mine.
Place that reminds me who i am, what i love...
place with all my hopes and all my fears...
place with all my friends, where i share my tears...
and all i need to do to reach it.. is.. Dream

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Summerlander
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Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Summerlander » 08 Oct 2015 16:00

But notice the distinction: in real life the factors that sparked the déjà vu were races, in the dream, characters. Are you open to the possibility of mere coincidence with a blend of confirmation bias?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Lonely Tear
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Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Lonely Tear » 08 Oct 2015 16:56

Summerlander wrote:But notice the distinction: in real life the factors that sparked the déjà vu were races, in the dream, characters. Are you open to the possibility of mere coincidence with a blend of confirmation bias?

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im not sure if i understand your question at the end, but ill try and be little more precise..

In the game itself, you can chose betwen thise races to play as, and make character that belongs to one of thise races.

back in my dream, i have meet thise characters that belong to thise races, i was interacting with them and explored their world. i was even able to make replicas of characters i saw in my dream, as a playable character in the game itself.
Place that reminds me who i am, what i love...
place with all my hopes and all my fears...
place with all my friends, where i share my tears...
and all i need to do to reach it.. is.. Dream

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Summerlander
Posts: 4203
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Summerlander » 08 Oct 2015 18:04

Is there a possibility that your memory of the dream was corrupted by the game in real life? You've heard of false memory syndrome that we all can suffer from, right?

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Lonely Tear
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Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Lonely Tear » 08 Oct 2015 19:12

no. i am sure of it.

im visiting the same "dream" for about 3 years now. and by that i mean the world where thise characters live in.
while in 3 years, i have learned a lot about them, i have to say, as the time passed, they have changed, little by little. but not in a bad way, not in a corrupt way, they werent affected by the way game played or game represented them.
what im trying to say is that over time they sort of... grew up, changed bits of their personality and way we interact with each other. but i remember all of their "stages" clearly, the way they started, the way they developed and how they are right now. im sure game didnt affect them, i think its more the opposite.
Place that reminds me who i am, what i love...
place with all my hopes and all my fears...
place with all my friends, where i share my tears...
and all i need to do to reach it.. is.. Dream

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Summerlander
Posts: 4203
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Summerlander » 08 Oct 2015 21:45

while in 3 years, i have learned a lot about them, i have to say, as the time passed, they have changed, little by little. but not in a bad way, not in a corrupt way, they werent affected by the way game played or game represented them.
what im trying to say is that over time they sort of... grew up, changed bits of their personality and way we interact with each other. but i remember all of their "stages" clearly, the way they started, the way they developed and how they are right now. im sure game didnt affect them, i think its more the opposite.


You sound like a fairly advanced lucid dreamer who's most likely mistaken in the oneiric interpretation of his psychedelic experiences—the error starting with the tendency to objectify mental phenomena.

How can you be so sure on the premise that such dream characters have sentience (apart from your own) when the view that you merely witnessed your mental activity symbollically maturing is just as—if not more—likely to be true?

Tell me where the 'I am sure of it' is coming from; what makes your New Age proposition more feasible than the mundane suggestion I exposit in response to your OP? Please articulate an intelligent and explanatory reason in your answer—if I just get, 'Because mine is more attractive and your materialistic world view is just dull,' I will be extremely disenchanted! :mrgreen:

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Lonely Tear
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Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Lonely Tear » 08 Oct 2015 23:21

while i dont do the fancy science talk (no offence ofcorse), nor do i understand half of it (english isnt my primary language) i feel explaining this in greater detail might be a little bit... difficult..
but i have a feeling this is exactly what you want me to do.
Brace yourself, this might take a while.

So the question is how can i be sure that thise characters have their own thoughts and personality, and how do i know that they arent just a part of my imagination. the short answer: i dont know, im not an expert.

...
but i will sure as hell try to explain it.

i have started lucid dreaming practice back in 2011, i was 16 at a time, middle school. life was never kind to me in any way, my perents where alcoholic, they divorced, i have lost brother and sister,
and i was alweys picked on for being different. i never had many friends, and i had to mature long before this as a young kid in order to get trough this part of life. needless to say i never had childhood.

after i started learning more about lucid dreams, for the first time in my life i felt like i wanted to do something with it, other then mindless school or work... this is what i belive started my love with dreams, it was first thing i could really feel invest myself in and i was happy for it. all the pressure from life was starting to take its tool on me, and i was growing more and more lonely and this trapped me.
it took a while year to get to the point where i had my very first lucid dream. after some time passed and i started to dream more and more, i started to meet thise characters in a dream. as i never had many friends, so thise.. imaginary characters.. seamed very inviting at a time. i had will to meet them again, and soon i did, i kept coming back to them in a dream and learning more about them. i know they are a part of imagination and they are a product of my Sub-con. but i have to wonder why did i invest myself in them so much...

you could easyly say that everything they are, is a product of my lonelyness and imagination, and to answer that, yeah you just as might be right. but i want to prove it otherwise..

in time as i was dreaming more and more, i have created this world thise characters inhabit, it was my playground, it was a place i was happy for geting trough all hardships of the day.
and here is the important part, a reason i believe thise "things" are more then just my imagination.

i belive they where created by me to help me fill the gaps in my life, the things i was missing and things i wanted tough my life. they started to act as my own family, and i started to treasure that. they had an imense impact on my life and have helped me change it in more ways then i cold ever imagine.

They where friends i never had.
They where family i was missing.
They thought me to trasure every life around me and realise how small our lives are.
I was slapped by one of them, and woke up with pain on my cheek... when i asked why was i hit, i was told that i am wasting my life (as at a time i was doing nothing but siting at home, playing video games for about 2 years) i thought about this for a while week on what it could mean, and then i realised that, she was right. im just siting... rotting... i decided to do something, i started to study art, go out more. live a little..
They helped me beat my fear of driving cars, my school education was a professional driver, but i couldnt even sit in the car without panicking. year later trough their help i started driving.
They made me social, with their help i soon started to aproach other people and slowly crawl out of my house.
They filled the holes i had in my life, and made me shape my life in a new way.. look at it from different angle, and stoped me from being depresed and lonely little man.

Life isnt nice... even today, its a struggle. but im not afraid anymore. im not trapped, i feel like i can go out tx to them. again you can easily, EASILY say they are part of my imagination, and to answer that, yeah. they are. but looking back at everything they have done for me, that neather my family nor dozen different doctors or psychologists could achive, makes me believe there is more to it.

I owe a lot to them, imaginary or not... they are part of me, and i believe that wont be easy to change.

i hope thise helps answer your question, how do i believe they are real and not part of something my mind mashed up and presented it to me... the answer is, i dont know, but i am here today tx to them.

im 21, trying to make something out of my life, im studying art, made lots of friends, and plan to learn how to cook and learn some martial arts if i get a chanse. i set my goals, and im working on them.
and i still see thise characters... even to this day.
(i know i got of the topic, but i hope this helps answers your question)
Place that reminds me who i am, what i love...
place with all my hopes and all my fears...
place with all my friends, where i share my tears...
and all i need to do to reach it.. is.. Dream

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Summerlander
Posts: 4203
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Summerlander » 09 Oct 2015 02:53

So the question is how can i be sure that thise characters have their own thoughts and personality, and how do i know that they arent just a part of my imagination. the short answer: i dont know, im not an expert.


Very honest answer. Now this I appreciate. This is noble.

i have started lucid dreaming practice back in 2011, i was 16 at a time, middle school. life was never kind to me in any way, my perents where alcoholic, they divorced, i have lost brother and sister,
and i was alweys picked on for being different. i never had many friends, and i had to mature long before this as a young kid in order to get trough this part of life. needless to say i never had childhood.


Sorry to hear that. I hope your lucid dreaming makes you happy and may it help you deal with unpleasant memories and other types of darkness in your mind. My parents are also divorced—something we have in common at least!

i know they are a part of imagination and they are a product of my Sub-con. but i have to wonder why did i invest myself in them so much...


I have a hypothesis: a subconscious need to reinvent yourself (or your self) in order to surmount snags and mitigate, or sometimes accept, conceptions of perceived unfairness. Whether you know it or not, you have been dealing with knots in your mind; and you created a dream team to help you deal with what you think you lack in your life. I'm not ruling out the possibility that your brain is tuning into another frequency of reality inhabited by psychic beings every time you induce a lucid dream, but I would point out that such would be hard to prove—especially if you are not sure yourself. The characters could even be conscious, like you (the dreamer), but be aspects of your personality as a whole. (Perhaps there is such a thing as 'sub-selves' that create thinking 'ripples' within one's psyche.)

But it shouldn't matter what they are if you have learned to pragmatically use such mental phenomena to your advantage in waking life. Alice, after having been to Wonderland, would agree—and so would Ebenezer Scrooge after being visited by three spirits in the night; 'Were they real or just a dream? Well, who cares—they made me see from a different perspective,' to paraphrase Mr Scrooge. They are helpful and they can appear to be sentient and friendly.

you could easyly say that everything they are, is a product of my lonelyness and imagination, and to answer that, yeah you just as might be right. but i want to prove it otherwise..


Please do when you feel you have enough—this means strong empirical evidence, something testable, a demonstrable fact removing all shadow of a doubt! I am ready for a paradigm shift.

in time as i was dreaming more and more, i have created this world thise characters inhabit, it was my playground, it was a place i was happy for geting trough all hardships of the day.
and here is the important part, a reason i believe thise "things" are more then just my imagination.


Have you ever heard of tulpas—imaginary beings that receive so much thinking attention from their authors for a long period of time that they gain objective reality and become independent of their creator? This is a mystic concept in Indian Buddhism found in its texts. Do you believe that there is some truth to it? Perhaps tulpas do exist—but only in one's phenomenal mind, never gaining existence in the physical realm as they are inherently subjective.

I was slapped by one of them, and woke up with pain on my cheek... when i asked why was i hit, i was told that i am wasting my life (as at a time i was doing nothing but siting at home, playing video games for about 2 years) i thought about this for a while week on what it could mean, and then i realised that, she was right. im just siting... rotting... i decided to do something, i started to study art, go out more. live a little..


Interesting. And the pain from the slap seems neurotic—if not slightly psychosomatic in a positive way. It's a symbolic but impactful 'slap-in-the-face' or 'wake-up call'. If seems that these dream figures—these mental projections of yours—are helping you to self-integrate. You are in touch with your conscience via lucid dreaming, it seems.

Life isnt nice... even today, its a struggle. but im not afraid anymore. im not trapped, i feel like i can go out tx to them. again you can easily, EASILY say they are part of my imagination, and to answer that, yeah. they are. but looking back at everything they have done for me, that neather my family nor dozen different doctors or psychologists could achive, makes me believe there is more to it.


I like this type of cynicism—it has an ounce of realism. I agree with you here: the world is not a nice place. But, however you perceive yourself at present, or how others perceive you (or how you think you're perceived), you can always exercise a strong mind capable of withstanding any experience however nightmarish. Your dream helpers are certainly real enough for you and that I will not take away from you. But remember to give yourself credit; it is—I believe—your doing in reality!

(i know i got of the topic, but i hope this helps answers your question)


Well, it kinda pertains to your topic and you have let me know where you are coming from so the whole thing hasn't been in vain. ;-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Lonely Tear
Posts: 51
Joined: 02 Sep 2015 22:53

Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Lonely Tear » 09 Oct 2015 11:39

Im glad we had this "little" conversation, its interesting to day the least. ty for it, i will try and give you my feedback and thoughts on it. im bit impressed to see someone do so much reserch regarding dreams, but then again if i had enough time, i could see investing myself in that. give it can help me put breed on the table hehe.

Very honest answer. Now this I appreciate. This is noble.

TY ^^

Sorry to hear that. I hope your lucid dreaming makes you happy and may it help you deal with unpleasant memories and other types of darkness in your mind. My parents are also divorced—something we have in common at least!

yup, it gave me enough strength to move forward, and ill do whatever i can to keep them around.

I have a hypothesis: a subconscious need to reinvent yourself (or your self) in order to surmount snags and mitigate, or sometimes accept, conceptions of perceived unfairness. Whether you know it or not, you have been dealing with knots in your mind; and you created a dream team to help you deal with what you think you lack in your life. I'm not ruling out the possibility that your brain is tuning into another frequency of reality inhabited by psychic beings every time you induce a lucid dream, but I would point out that such would be hard to prove—especially if you are not sure yourself. The characters could even be conscious, like you (the dreamer), but be aspects of your personality as a whole. (Perhaps there is such a thing as 'sub-selves' that create thinking 'ripples' within one's psyche.)
But it shouldn't matter what they are if you have learned to pragmatically use such mental phenomena to your advantage in waking life. Alice, after having been to Wonderland, would agree—and so would Ebenezer Scrooge after being visited by three spirits in the night; 'Were they real or just a dream? Well, who cares—they made me see from a different perspective,' to paraphrase Mr Scrooge. They are helpful and they can appear to be sentient and friendly.

hm.. i was sort of trying to answer my own question further more in my story by explaining all the things i have experienced with this characters. but im glad you analyzed it so well for me.

Please do when you feel you have enough—this means strong empirical evidence, something testable, a demonstrable fact removing all shadow of a doubt! I am ready for a paradigm shift.

i never saw myself as a scientist... hm...

Have you ever heard of tulpas—imaginary beings that receive so much thinking attention from their authors for a long period of time that they gain objective reality and become independent of their creator? This is a mystic concept in Indian Buddhism found in its texts. Do you believe that there is some truth to it? Perhaps tulpas do exist—but only in one's phenomenal mind, never gaining existence in the physical realm as they are inherently subjective.

this is a tough one, i came across a lot of different mythology in my reserch, and buddhists are well known for their meditation and spirituality. i belive it might be possible, given my experiences so far.
i belive there is something more to our world then just atoms or whats written in the bible. but thats a story for another time.

Interesting. And the pain from the slap seems neurotic—if not slightly psychosomatic in a positive way. It's a symbolic but impactful 'slap-in-the-face' or 'wake-up call'. If seems that these dream figures—these mental projections of yours—are helping you to self-integrate. You are in touch with your conscience via lucid dreaming, it seems.

its a funny thing you mention that i was in Touch with my Conscience...
a character that did hit me is the one i belive represents my Sub-Con in a dream.

I like this type of cynicism—it has an ounce of realism. I agree with you here: the world is not a nice place. But, however you perceive yourself at present, or how others perceive you (or how you think you're perceived), you can always exercise a strong mind capable of withstanding any experience however nightmarish. Your dream helpers are certainly real enough for you and that I will not take away from you. But remember to give yourself credit; it is—I believe—your doing in reality!

Why ty, ill take that as a compliment. a really nice one.

Well, it kinda pertains to your topic and you have let me know where you are coming from so the whole thing hasn't been in vain. ;-)

yay ^^

id like to add one finall question in this little mess we made... im doing some study on art and drawing and im practicing daily, i intend to draw my cream characters and share things i have seen with the world, and when i get good enough. make comics based on my adventures.
what do you think about this?
Place that reminds me who i am, what i love...
place with all my hopes and all my fears...
place with all my friends, where i share my tears...
and all i need to do to reach it.. is.. Dream

User avatar
Summerlander
Posts: 4203
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: id like to share some Dejavus i had..

Postby Summerlander » 09 Oct 2015 13:36

Im glad we had this "little" conversation, its interesting to day the least. ty for it, i will try and give you my feedback and thoughts on it. im bit impressed to see someone do so much reserch regarding dreams, but then again if i had enough time, i could see investing myself in that. give it can help me put breed on the table hehe.


You never know what opportunities could arise in the realm of oneirology. You may even want to study consciousness--one of the greatest mysteries--using new approaches other than observing brain activity. The brain does not show us exactly how consciousness arises in the material world, which is why I think better clues will be found in meditation and lucid dreaming--subjective tools for observation. A good scientist will also want to experience psychedelic and spiritual states for himself--he or she shouldn't just leave that to their subjects.

i belive there is something more to our world then just atoms or whats written in the bible. but thats a story for another time.


We'd definitely need another topic for this one. You're right, for now it's best to just tackle what we are dealing with here.

its a funny thing you mention that i was in Touch with my Conscience...
a character that did hit me is the one i belive represents my Sub-Con in a dream.


Yes, it could be the equivalent of Carl Jung's sophos--a philosophically wise archetype making sound judgements in your behalf. (Alice's Absolem!)

Why ty, ill take that as a compliment. a really nice one


You're welcome! 8-)

id like to add one finall question in this little mess we made... im doing some study on art and drawing and im practicing daily, i intend to draw my cream characters and share things i have seen with the world, and when i get good enough. make comics based on my adventures.
what do you think about this?


I think you should go for it! As a lucid dreamer you'll never run out of ideas and inspiration. Lucid dreaming is a great tool for artists. You should definitely embark on this project and share it with others. :-)

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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