Should Guns Be Banned in America?

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Should guns be banned?

Yes
1
17%
No
4
67%
I don't know
1
17%
 
Total votes: 6

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Summerlander
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Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby Summerlander » 10 Oct 2015 14:07

I'll start by introducing my stance in basic terms. By all means, make their access harder, but banning them is not the answer; there is--in my opinion--a convincing counterargument to the reasons for outlawing gun possession based on security and self-defence. Vote and state your views wisely ... 8-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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DesertExplorer
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Re: Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby DesertExplorer » 11 Oct 2015 02:29

I don't know.
Life is hard. Then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then the worms eat you. Be grateful it happens in that order.

~David Gerrold

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SunTzu
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Re: Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby SunTzu » 11 Oct 2015 10:05

In Australia we banned guns about 20 years ago and have had very few shootings killing innocent people since. There is no doubt that restricting gun ownership would reduce violence in America, but it's hard to say whether that compensates for the increased government power. On one hand we have seen the benefits of gun restriction in countries like Norway and Australia, but the dangers of such laws are obvious in nations like Cambodia and China.

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Summerlander
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Re: Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby Summerlander » 11 Oct 2015 13:32

SunTzu wrote:There is no doubt that restricting gun ownership would reduce violence in America, but it's hard to say whether that compensates for the increased government power.


No, it wouldn't. It would probably increase violence. Also, do you really think armed civillians can prevent a dictatorship with their little pistols when the government can strike homes with explosives, missiles, drones, and armed units that can instantly track you on their CH-47 Chinooks? Government threat is not what's at stake here and Americans are--generically speaking--nationalistic enough to adulate any man that sits in the Oval Office.

Now, more to the point ... In places like China and the UK--where guns are outlawed--we have seen a rise in knife crime. (And there are still a few shootings.)

Shootings in America usually happen in areas where guns are restricted because the assailants know they can get away with prolonged carnage. Who would dare to stop them without a weapon? The most atrocious school shooting, which happened in Virginia, could have been immediately stopped if an armed guard/guards had been at the scene to blast Seung-hui Cho into oblivion. Lots of lives could have been saved if a sane and well-trained person had been armed and present. Instead, Cho managed to kill 32.

Now, imagine you're a teacher in that situation; you see everybody helplessly trying to evade the shooter as this one mercilessly sprays bullets everywhere and shows no sign of stopping ... Can you really imagine yourself thinking in that situation, 'I'm so glad nobody else here is wielding a gun thanks to the ban!' You wouldn't. You would have wished for an armed hero to save the day, instead!

A ban would only deprive good people--including sane people with the potential to be highly trained in firearms--of gun ownership while the psychos and criminals would still have that privilege (as they would still acquire weapons illicitly). It would also only energise street gangs and augment corruption.

As I have once said before in a fitting analogy, don't blame the knife, nor its maker, nor the chef ... blame the psychopath who has used it for ill. In fact, people should look out for signs of mental illness and do everything they can to provide help for disturbed individuals. That's where the problem lies. This is why I say that guns should not be banned, but rather, people need to be educated about them and their access should be made harder. For a gun licence one should undergo rigorous testing and only the highly trained and competent should be allowed to possess one.

This, in my opinion, is a more realistic approach. It's easy for Mr Obama to say that the UK has managed to live without guns while a helpless mother and her children are murdered by a psychopathic burglar in England--because the police took too long to get there. If only she had a gun she might have had a chance ... And the police are not to blame--it's just the laws of physics: some places are harder or take longer to get to than others.

Furthermore, Australia, China and the United Kingdom are vastly different from the United States. North Americans are used to guns for protection and to take it away from them is political suicide. The failure to stop school shootings lies precisely in the absence of armed security and the vetting of candidates for gun possession. It's very easy to blame 'symbols of violence' whilst ignoring the problem of individuals who are socially impaired and need urgent monitoring.

Sorry, buddy, but you haven't thought this through--unless you have a strong counterargument that I'm not aware of. I did say, 'State your views wisely.' :mrgreen:

DesertExplorer wrote:I don't know.


Best answer so far--and very honest! I admire the Socratically terse reply. 8-)

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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SunTzu
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Re: Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby SunTzu » 12 Oct 2015 06:55

I tempted to go through your reply in detail and counter it but I'll resist.
You have a very typical American viewpoint and believe that America is somewhat special. Well, America is special in that it's lack of gun restrictions has made it the most violent country in the world, with even more prisoners than the much larger (and in recent years, more successful) China.
It's okay to have this culture of school shootings, extreme violence and crime but it needs a justification. Restriction of government power is the only justification that we can come up with.

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Summerlander
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Re: Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby Summerlander » 12 Oct 2015 09:52

SunTzu wrote:I tempted to go through your reply in detail and counter it but I'll resist.


Don't resist--go for it! Please do so. It's what discourse is all about. Go on ... have a go. :mrgreen:

SunTzu wrote:You have a very typical American viewpoint and believe that America is somewhat special.


You'd be somewhat mistaken to think so. Here is a link to one of my threads that pretty much says otherwise. The United States is only special in that they have a First Amendment--no other nation on Earth has anything remotely like this. The Constitution and its amendments are very well written; the problem is the corrupt demagogues that run it with their triangulations. Read this carefully and behold who I blame--in part--for the Salafist mess in the Levant.

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16921

SunTzu wrote:Well, America is special in that it's lack of gun restrictions has made it the most violent country in the world, with even more prisoners than the much larger (and in recent years, more successful) China.


This is simply false. You only have to look at Iraq, Syria and the Lebanon to know otherwise. America also has a large number of prisoners because the government hypocritically focuses their resources on the ludicrous 'war on drugs'--despite the fact that the CIA makes a profit from the cocaine trade--instead of tackling irresponsible and disturbed people with a penchant for weapons. Moreover, in America, more patients have died in hospitals--mostly because doctors sometimes neglect to wash their hands--than people have died in school shootings. (Contrary to popular creed, school shootings are rare.) Should we ban hospitals because so many die in them? :-D

And is China really more successful? A country with desertification problems which heavily relies on imports; a Communist nation, by the way, who oppresses religious groups--just recently we saw how the ruthless Chinese government dismantled churches and prevented Christians from harmlessly practising their faith!

SunTzu wrote:It's okay to have this culture of school shootings, extreme violence and crime but it needs a justification.


Culture? What culture? It's sick people who do it. Just because the mentally ill are unable to use guns responsibly doesn't mean sane and highly competent model citizens can't.

SunTzu wrote:Restriction of government power is the only justification that we can come up with.


Yes--the perfect recipe for anarchists, revolutionaries, and coup d'état maniacs. (Sarcasm intended: see how peaceful it'll get and how long the Constitution can be sustained.) :lol:

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

seanEE
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Postby seanEE » 24 Oct 2015 20:28

do you guys not think that if they ban guns, the criminals will not just get them some way or an other,
and the sireal killers will just resort to knives and sticks, weapons are every where,
what about that guy the works out and has huge guns. how about this, instead of banning guns, we issue every person over 60, with a 6 gun, that way, any one trying to rob an old lady will have to think, is the few dollars in her purse really worth risking my life, criminals ant idiots, they do what ever is economically viable. who would rob a diner with 20 armed men it it.
would you ban marital arts, I'm sure bruce lee could have wiped out a room full of men if they were not armed. its like saying ban all lighters and we will stop all fires, it silly. ''NO ITS F#KING RETARDED'' I'm sorry i do tend to rant. :)
''you must excuse my personality''

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Summerlander
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Re: Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby Summerlander » 24 Oct 2015 22:45

And we've recently just witnessed recently how racist Anton Lundin dressed up as Darth Vader and used a sword to kill a teacher and a student at a school in Trollhattan, Sweden. Getting rid of guns or knives will not solve anything as the killers can use other objects. Also, weapons can be used for protection.

By the way, I wouldn't just arm any old fart. They'd have to be thoroughly vetted, too. We don't wanted demented grandpas and grandmas running around with little pistols. :mrgreen:

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

seanEE
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Re: Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby seanEE » 24 Oct 2015 22:55

but what about equality sumerlander. you can't just not give dementia stucken old farts guns. we will put a sign on there gates, stating that there is indeed a dementia stucken old fart living here, and to stay well clear we will also only issue them with short range ones.
''you must excuse my personality''

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Summerlander
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Re: Should Guns Be Banned in America?

Postby Summerlander » 24 Oct 2015 23:45

:lol:

Diminished responsibility is the opposite of responsibility. Equality does not enter the equation here. :mrgreen:

I shall check out your topics soon, by the way. I'm not as miraculous as you make me out to be on my phone. I'm only human! :-D

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"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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