the life of a perma lucid dreamer. any others out there?

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chaitealatte
Posts: 2
Joined: 18 Dec 2015 07:00

the life of a perma lucid dreamer. any others out there?

Postby chaitealatte » 18 Dec 2015 07:33

**i originally posted this in the "sleeping disorders" topic, but i feel like this forum gets more traffic so i've decided to repost**

so i've recently figured out i'm a perma lucid dreamer. i've always known i had some kind of sleeping "disorder" that involves lucid dreaming, which i'll get into in a bit, but it's only recently started affecting my life enough for me to look into it and put a name to it. and i've found it. i'm a perma lucid dreamer. or at least, i think i am... and i guess i made an account because i wanted to hear about other people's thoughts and if there are any other perma lucid dreamers out there.

it started about a year ago. and the LDs come in spurts -- i'll LD every night for about three to four months, not have any lucid dreams for a month, and then suddenly LD every consecutive night again for another period of time, usually three to four months again. and it's always the same routine. i always know when i'm about to have another conscious night of dreaming because it's always the same routine.

it starts off by sleep paralysis -- my feet start to tingle and that tingling feeling shoots up my body until it reaches my head. and my mind is still crystal-clear because every time i start slipping into sleep paralysis, i fight it and my mind is screaming, "no no no no not again". i've only recently started to move during these unfortunate times, but i feel like i'm moving in slow motion. after the tingling feeling has reached my head, i get really intense auditory hallucinations. i hear the really deep voice of a man that sounds like it's been amplified through a megaphone. it's always the same voice, so i named him Marcus O' Neill. what he says every night is different though. sometimes he'll recite bible verses, or at least i think they're bible verses, i'm not religious. or other days he'll make just random comments, like "oh the sky was really blue today". or "a cheese platter is always wonderful accompanied with some crackers." (i'm not kidding, he's actually said this to me before.) (and another side note: a couple nights ago i finally found the courage to speak back to Marcus O' Neill, and when my mouth opened his voice came out of me!! so i've figured out he's my subconscious. how frickin weird is that.) and when i open my eyes, he stops speaking to me and i'll start lucid dreaming.

i've heard about reality checks, and i've never really had to do those because i've always known i was dreaming right away because of the weather outside my window or the light inside the room. in all my lucid dreams, it's either been light out and i know i'll be dreaming because my bed time's around 2am, or my room fills with a soft reddish light. and my college dorm room's light looks like that of a jail cell; definitely not soft at all. and i've done all sorts of things in my dreams that i don't really want to get into, such as flying and speaking to people i've really wanted to speak to (ex. my best friend died a couple years ago and i find myself speaking to her dream form very often). and as if all this isn't weird enough, when i wake up from a night of lucid dreaming, i hallucinate while wide-awake for about 20-30 minutes afterwards. it's like the hallucinations you get from psychedelic drugs -- i've stared at my wall and watched what seemed like full episodes of bugs bunny or spongebob before, or i'll look at my tapestry and watch the patterns morph and expand. crows will fly in Vs across my ceiling. even when i close my eyes after i wake up, i'll see figures of cartoons dancing and beckoning to me. i think this is what's called "hypnagogic hallucinations".

the thing is: i've never actively tried to lucid dream. one night it just happened and never stopped. and i never really considered it a blessing until i learned how many people desire to LD as much as i do, so i've only recently started messing with it and learning how to do stuff in my dreams. and to be honest, it's kind of ruined my life in a way. i used to wake up from LDs refreshed and filled with adrenaline, but now i wake up exhausted because i think i've reached the level of consciousness in my dreams that i might as well be awake. and the auditory hallucinations, having a man from inside my head speak to me, used to really freak me out but i've gotten used to it. but i think these things are due to the fact i've never really viewed LDs in a positive light, and i hope that as i begin to mess around i'll begin to embrace them more.

anyways that's my story and i really really really want to hear if there are any other perma lucid dreamers on this site. i don't even know if i am one, it's just a label i've found that fits what's been happening to me over the past two years the best. so yeah i'd love to hear from anyone :)
Last edited by chaitealatte on 31 Dec 2015 07:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Prince Demitri
Posts: 157
Joined: 30 Dec 2015 11:47
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Re: the life of a perma lucid dreamer. any others out there?

Postby Prince Demitri » 31 Dec 2015 01:06

Hey there Chaitealatte!

I've begun wondering if I qualify as a perma-lucid dreamer myself. However, I don't experience the issues you seem to be having (at least not as you describe them). I'm lucid every night except nights when I decide I don't want to be lucid, or I'm so tired that I pass out as soon as my head hits the pillow (when I still might end up in a LD anyway).

The biggest difference I noticed right away between us is that I've developed my lucidity skill over decades, whereas it just happened to you suddenly. I imagine that was very unsettling for you (especially if your reaction has been "no no no no not again").

I do have hallucinations tho (but different from what you described). The hallucinations I get have only begun about 5 months ago, even tho I've been regularly having LDs for almost 28 years. So I haven't thought of the two being connected before I read your post. I'll have to think on that more.

My lucidity practice had a different side effect for me, which began once I had managed to become lucid 5+ times per week, and lasted for around 2 years before I learned how to eliminate it. The side effect was a loss of ability to tell when I was awake, due to my LDs being so vivid. My LDs had become so real and frequent (along with multiple dream layering), that they looked and felt more real than waking life did. That became a problem, especially when I'd try to use my dream powers while awake. Thankfully, I eventually got that under control.

What I'm most curious about now is the idea that perhaps something else IS happening with you to trigger the hallucinations, and whatever that might be could actually be assisting you with becoming lucid in your dreams (meaning the LDs might be a side effect instead of the cause). The fact that this just started happening to you so frequently and out of the blue, instead of being something you grew up doing regularly (even if just in spurts), or having practiced to accomplish regular lucidity, is what leads me to wonder about this.

Have you talked to a doctor about possibly getting a CAT scan and/or MRI done just to be on the safe side? It's awesome that you're having lucid dreams so regularly, but it's not so awesome that you're having these other issues, or if it turned out that this was happening now because of some other potentially hazardous problem.

If you have, and those don't show anything out of the ordinary, then I'd say to just learn how to enjoy it when it happens, and we can work on developing some techniques to minimize or possibly even eliminate the wake-time issues. But if it turns out that something is wrong, you're best off if you find out quickly.

I look forward to hearing back from you my tea-loving friend!
Cheers! 8-)
Oneironaut experience: ~28 years
Average LDs per month: Usually 16 to 30 (depending on whether or not I want to)

I enjoy helping others and answering questions. 8-)

chaitealatte
Posts: 2
Joined: 18 Dec 2015 07:00

Re: the life of a perma lucid dreamer. any others out there?

Postby chaitealatte » 31 Dec 2015 07:16

hi!!! i'm so glad you found my post and replied!!! you're the first person i've ever spoken to who relates to what i experience :)

i totally understand the whole "not being able to tell when you're awake" thing. there are moments when i'm actually awake that i'll bring something up that happened in one of my dreams that for instance had a friend in it and he/she'll look at me like i'm crazy. i'm home from college now and people from college tend to appear in my dreams before i decide to alter them so it's been way easier to distinguish between reality/the dream world, thank god. and what do you mean by dream-layering? sometimes i'll start off in a dream where i'm not lucid, and then something like inception happens and i'll fall into a deeper dream where i do happen to be lucid. in these LDs though there's more of a fuzzy feeling, like i'm sort of submerged underwater and i don't feel 100% conscious like i do in normal LDs.

i'm interested to hear about your hallucinations. i personally find my auditory ones most unsettling, especially since they happen during sleep paralysis, but i've come to find my hypnagogic ones actually quite enjoyable especially since i've learned to control what i can see.

how did you first start practicing lucidity?

my mom originally wanted me to see a sleep therapist when the LDs started getting bothersome, but i spoke to a friend about it and he suggested that maybe they were so bothersome because i was viewing them negatively, especially since they first started happening with no warning. these past few months though i've come to embrace and enjoy them, and the only thing that bothers me now about them is that i'm still getting used to slipping into sleep paralysis without freaking out and the fact that i'll sometimes be very tired when i wake up due to being in such a state of consciousness at night. i will definitely consider the MRI scan if things get out of control but fingers crossed they don't!

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Prince Demitri
Posts: 157
Joined: 30 Dec 2015 11:47
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Re: the life of a perma lucid dreamer. any others out there?

Postby Prince Demitri » 31 Dec 2015 13:45

BEWARE!
What follows has turned into a mega-post from the land of "GAHH! Why did I type so much?!"
(This has been a public safety message.)

chaitealatte wrote:hi!!! i'm so glad you found my post and replied!!! you're the first person i've ever spoken to who relates to what i experience :)

I haven't run into very many others that have LDs nearly as often as I do. I think I've come across maybe 30 or so over the past 28 years, so I can totally relate to that.

i totally understand the whole "not being able to tell when you're awake" thing. there are moments when i'm actually awake that i'll bring something up that happened in one of my dreams that for instance had a friend in it and he/she'll look at me like i'm crazy.

Yeah, it can get pretty confusing and even embarrassing sometimes. For instance, when I was in my late teens I had a crush on this girl that was a good friend and we hung out often (it was before I learned how to stay out of the friend zone, or that the friend zone was even a thing).

Over a series of LDs I had worked up the courage to ask her out, and she agreed. We went on a number of dates, and got romantic. In the LDs we had progressed beyond the point where casual kisses were weird, to where casual kissing was a common thing. The problem? It was during the time when I had lost the ability to differentiate between LDs and reality, and I thought I had practiced building up the courage in LDs and then actually progressed the relationship IRL. It wasn't IRL.

So imagine her surprise when I kissed her in the casually familiar way one day IRL. Yeeahhh... She didn't feel that way about me. To her I was perma-friend zoned. That was when I first realized that I had lost the ability to tell the difference between the waking world and the dreamscape. It rocked my world in a way I didn't like.

what do you mean by dream-layering?

When you wake up from an LD into another dream thinking it's the waking world. Very much like Inception, the only difference is that you don't realize it's a dream, even tho you have full awareness, memory recall, etc. just as tho you were awake or lucidly dreaming. I would have full recall of the LD, and be fully awake and aware of everything... EXCEPT that I was still within another layer of the dreamscape.

Since I knew I had been dreaming lucidly, and had woken up, it felt like I was awake. My subconscious had become so good at manipulating the dreamscape that everything was like waking life; I could read things normally, physics worked properly, I had no dream powers, everything was in exact detail (including the dirty dishes in the sink, and the scum in the toilet bowl that needed to be scrubbed, and the texture and feel of the toilet paper and the water from the sink, and my reflection in the bathroom mirror, etc).

But it was another layer of the dream. I might as well have been in the Matrix for how real it was. I even recorded my LD in my dream journal, just as I normally would when waking up. Only then, sometime later, I would wake up again, and realize that it had all been another layer of dreaming.

Since the technical definition of an LD is being aware that you're dreaming while still in the dream, and I was aware of everything except that singular fact, I don't know if I would call it an LD at that point, even tho I had the same wakefulness, memory, and recall as I do in LDs.

The most striking example I've ever experienced with layered dreams happened when I was about 21 or 22. The layering was so complete that I would sleep, LD, wake, record my dream, live my entire day, go to bed, fall asleep, LD again, and so on for years (if I was actually waking up each time). When I finally woke up for real, it was as if I had gone back in time. And what I mean by "years", is that I had gotten married, moved to another city, and had two children, all within that one layered dream.

{Some have suggested that this event was not all within a dream, but that somehow my consciousness has actually jumped back in time into a younger version of myself. However, none of the most memorable world events from within the dream happened in waking life, and many of the people from within it don't even exist. So while I'm not going to discount the possibility of my consciousness slipping back in time to an earlier version of myself in an alternate universe, I'm not at all convinced it was anything more than a very elaborate dream.}

That dream (and a couple others that didn't last for years, but have lasted a few weeks or days) threw me for more of a loop than any other LD. After that, I began to have serious thoughts considering whether or not I was actually going crazy. I tried to stop LDing (and was only slightly effective, since I had become so used to doing it by that then) for a few months. At some point I decided that it was very intense, and I hadn't been prepared to handle it (since I had never heard of layered dreams of that magnitude before). Sure, people sometimes have dreams where they wake up from sleep and go to work or school and in the middle of their day they wake up for real. It was like that, only it was the longer, more intense version.

About a year later I started deliberately exploring dream-layering in my LDs. It really is like the next level of lucid dreaming. The way I understand the progression of the oneironaut now is like this:
:arrow: Dreams you can't recall
:arrow: Hazy dreams you can sometimes recall
:arrow: Clear dreams you can recall
:arrow: Your first LD! (lasts for 20 seconds)
:arrow: Longer LDs and stabilization ("This is f*@king amazing!")
:arrow: Regular, stable LDs ("I totally got this down! I'm the freakin BOSS of LDs!")
:arrow: Your first layered dream from an LD ("WTF was THAT!?!")
:arrow: Freak the hell out
:arrow: Try to stop becoming lucid when dreaming ("This needs to stop before I completely lose myself!")
:arrow: Stop freaking out and just go back to regular LDs
:arrow: Your second layered dream ("Am I finally going crazy?")
:arrow: Your third layered dream (curiosity and, "I'm not crazy, there's just much more to dreams than I thought.")
:arrow: Your first intentional layered dream (This is literally some next-level sh*t going on here!")
:arrow: Intentionally creating and exploring multiple layers ("How far down does this rabbit hole go?")

As this last step here is where I have currently been for about 6.5 years now, I don't know if there are more steps beyond it, or if this is the final frontier step. I suppose only time will tell. I've only met 3 other people that have gone thru these same stages to intentionally creating and exploring multi-layered dreams (more have claimed to, but talking with them for a while made it clear they had only really watched the movie and were making up stories, so I don't count them.)

The movie Inception came out about 10 months after my first intentional layered dream. My first thought about it was, "I'm not the only one to have had this happen. Whoever wrote the screenplay for Inception has either experienced it themself, or knows someone who has." Ever since Inception hit theaters, interest in lucidity has spiked to an all-time high. I've never before seen so many people interested in lucidity.

In the few years since Inception was released, public interest in LDing has relaxed back out of the main stream again, but there are till WAY more people interested in becoming oneironauts (not to mention much more technology to help) now than there was before.

I don't know if the time-dilation effect expressed in Inception is an actual thing with layered dreams, but I've been trying to think of ways to figure that out during my current experiments with dream-layering. Sometimes it seems like it definitely is, and other times it doesn't, so that's still under investigation for me.

sometimes i'll start off in a dream where i'm not lucid, and then something like inception happens and i'll fall into a deeper dream where i do happen to be lucid.

That seems to be the pattern with layered dreams. The top-most (main) dream is one where I'm not lucid (according to the definition), as I mentioned above, but I do maintain full wakefulness and recall as if I were awake (I just don't know I'm still in a dream).

in these LDs though there's more of a fuzzy feeling, like i'm sort of submerged underwater and i don't feel 100% conscious like i do in normal LDs.

That's odd. I don't experience them that way. For me, one layer is much like another when it comes to how I feel (on a lucidity and consciousness level). I wonder if it's because your subconscious is still "testing the waters" as it were; trying it out, and taking baby steps toward dream-layering?

i'm interested to hear about your hallucinations.

There's not much to them. Here's what I experience (broken up by affected sense):

Visual~ Occasionally I'll see phantoms out of the corner of my eye, or what looks like a single colored thread moving thru open air as if it were a living thing swimming thru water (the actual color of the thread changes). I also see flashes of light rather regularly too.

Auditory~ I usually notice this type during times when there's no one around (like when I'm driving alone down an empty road in the middle of the night; which, when I was a night-time taxi driver, I used to do fairly often) I'll hear faint sounds that sound like anything from someone in another room listening to music, or people talking in a business meeting, or club music with people trying to talk over the music, etc. On rare occasions I can understand what's being said, but most times it's just out of range for me to make out actual words. When it comes to songs, sometimes they are ones I've heard, sometimes they aren't; I can usually make out the beat and rhythm rather well tho.

Touch~ Everything from a loose hair brushing across some part of my body (which could be actual hair, but this happens often and 99% of the time no amount of searching will uncover the offending hair), to feeling the sensation of touching/pressing/brushing/etc something warm/soft/icy/rough/sticky/etc. This type of hallucination happens fairly often.

Taste~ I rarely get flavor hallucinations, but they do happen occasionally. Just a sudden, random flavor in my mouth for no apparent reason. Thankfully it's usually not a nasty taste (tho that has happened before too).

Scent~ I don't know if I have hallucinatory smells, or if I just catch a whiff of something here or there that seems out of place enough for me to notice, but it doesn't seem to happen any more often than it happens to others (according to what people have told me), so for now I don't think I have this type of hallucination.

i personally find my auditory ones most unsettling, especially since they happen during sleep paralysis, but i've come to find my hypnagogic ones actually quite enjoyable especially since i've learned to control what i can see.

Right on! I don't have much experience with sleep paralysis. It happens on occasion, but since my practice involves laying as still as I can right after waking up while I mentally review my dreams (to help cement them in my memory) I'm not sure if I'd notice if it did happen (or if I'd see it as just being especially easy to remain motionless that particular time).

how did you first start practicing lucidity?

My first LD just happened one night when I was about 10 years old. At first I thought that was how everyone else experienced dreams, and like I might've been "dreaming the wrong way" before then. Because of that idea, I guess I kinda... willed :?: myself to LD after that?

My parents started homeschooling me when I was very young, so my mother told me I had to write at least a half page in my journal everyday as part of my writing practice. I was 8 when that started. I didn't know what to write most of the time so my mom suggested I write down my dreams in it each morning. So I started a dream journal at age 8 kinda by accident. Now I'm pretty sure that had a lot to do with my spontaneous LD beginnings.

I didn't know what LDs were, and just started playing with them when it happened. I liked the LDs more than regular dreams because I could remember more (to write in the journal) and I had awesome dream powers. I loved Spiderman back then, so the first dream powers I can remember using were climbing walls, slinging webs, and swinging on them thru the streets of my hometown.

Later on I learned that most people didn't dream like that (if they remembered their dreams), and they had little-to-no control over them. So I did what any young teenager did when they had a cool thing they could do that others didn't seem to - I shut my mouth and didn't tell anyone about them. Ahh, those teenage years... So worried about becoming an outsider instead of just being myself and setting the trend for others to follow.

my mom originally wanted me to see a sleep therapist when the LDs started getting bothersome, but i spoke to a friend about it and he suggested that maybe they were so bothersome because i was viewing them negatively, especially since they first started happening with no warning.

I've talked with sleep therapists before. I haven't found them to be especially helpful for anything ( :!: but that could be due to who I was talking to, and isn't likely to reflect all sleep therapists).

Personally, I agree with your friend. Being freaked out and scared of sudden weird stuff happening is natural for us humans. A change in perception can go a very long way towards turning something that can potentially be scary into something awesome and amazing. Of course, it seems you have already learned that yourself. ;)

these past few months though i've come to embrace and enjoy them

Awesome! It's great to hear that you've changed your perception of them, and can now enjoy them.

the only thing that bothers me now about them is that i'm still getting used to slipping into sleep paralysis without freaking out and the fact that i'll sometimes be very tired when i wake up due to being in such a state of consciousness at night.

Being fatigued due to being lucid while dreaming shouldn't happen, as your body isn't actually expending any extra energy to do it. It's happened to me on rare occasions, but there's almost always been some other reason for it, not just from being lucid. If you do talk to a sleep therapist (which might be a much better one than those I talked to ~17 years ago), this is what I suggest you talk about most.

Just keep in mind that therapists are there to help discover (and hopefully help to reduce or eliminate) the problem areas. If you bring up lucid dreaming in the context as that being the source of the problem, that might inadvertently cause the therapist focus on that as the problem, and they may miss the actual problem by doing so. So stick to the actual problems when talking to one (such as feeling drained and tired after waking).

I don't know too much about sleep paralysis, but there's lots of info online that you could look at. Maybe others with more direct experience with that phenomenon might have some suggestions to help with that.

i will definitely consider the MRI scan if things get out of control but fingers crossed they don't!

I hope everything is, and stays, awesome with you my friend!

I look forward to hearing back from you, but for now I'm going to cap off this ultra-mega-huge reply post.
Chat at cha again soon! 8-)
Oneironaut experience: ~28 years
Average LDs per month: Usually 16 to 30 (depending on whether or not I want to)

I enjoy helping others and answering questions. 8-)

Wenawa
Posts: 1
Joined: 05 Apr 2018 16:40

Re: the life of a perma lucid dreamer. any others out there?

Postby Wenawa » 05 Apr 2018 17:07

Prince Demitri wrote:BEWARE!
What follows has turned into a mega-post from the land of "GAHH! Why did I type so much?!"
(This has been a public safety message.)

chaitealatte wrote:hi!!! i'm so glad you found my post and replied!!! you're the first person i've ever spoken to who relates to what i experience :)

I haven't run into very many others that have LDs nearly as often as I do. I think I've come across maybe 30 or so over the past 28 years, so I can totally relate to that.

i totally understand the whole "not being able to tell when you're awake" thing. there are moments when i'm actually awake that i'll bring something up that happened in one of my dreams that for instance had a friend in it and he/she'll look at me like i'm crazy.

Yeah, it can get pretty confusing and even embarrassing sometimes. For instance, when I was in my late teens I had a crush on this girl that was a good friend and we hung out often (it was before I learned how to stay out of the friend zone, or that the friend zone was even a thing).

Over a series of LDs I had worked up the courage to ask her out, and she agreed. We went on a number of dates, and got romantic. In the LDs we had progressed beyond the point where casual kisses were weird, to where casual kissing was a common thing. The problem? It was during the time when I had lost the ability to differentiate between LDs and reality, and I thought I had practiced building up the courage in LDs and then actually progressed the relationship IRL. It wasn't IRL.

So imagine her surprise when I kissed her in the casually familiar way one day IRL. Yeeahhh... She didn't feel that way about me. To her I was perma-friend zoned. That was when I first realized that I had lost the ability to tell the difference between the waking world and the dreamscape. It rocked my world in a way I didn't like.

what do you mean by dream-layering?

When you wake up from an LD into another dream thinking it's the waking world. Very much like Inception, the only difference is that you don't realize it's a dream, even tho you have full awareness, memory recall, etc. just as tho you were awake or lucidly dreaming. I would have full recall of the LD, and be fully awake and aware of everything... EXCEPT that I was still within another layer of the dreamscape.

Since I knew I had been dreaming lucidly, and had woken up, it felt like I was awake. My subconscious had become so good at manipulating the dreamscape that everything was like waking life; I could read things normally, physics worked properly, I had no dream powers, everything was in exact detail (including the dirty dishes in the sink, and the scum in the toilet bowl that needed to be scrubbed, and the texture and feel of the toilet paper and the water from the sink, and my reflection in the bathroom mirror, etc).

But it was another layer of the dream. I might as well have been in the Matrix for how real it was. I even recorded my LD in my dream journal, just as I normally would when waking up. Only then, sometime later, I would wake up again, and realize that it had all been another layer of dreaming.

Since the technical definition of an LD is being aware that you're dreaming while still in the dream, and I was aware of everything except that singular fact, I don't know if I would call it an LD at that point, even tho I had the same wakefulness, memory, and recall as I do in LDs.

The most striking example I've ever experienced with layered dreams happened when I was about 21 or 22. The layering was so complete that I would sleep, LD, wake, record my dream, live my entire day, go to bed, fall asleep, LD again, and so on for years (if I was actually waking up each time). When I finally woke up for real, it was as if I had gone back in time. And what I mean by "years", is that I had gotten married, moved to another city, and had two children, all within that one layered dream.

{Some have suggested that this event was not all within a dream, but that somehow my consciousness has actually jumped back in time into a younger version of myself. However, none of the most memorable world events from within the dream happened in waking life, and many of the people from within it don't even exist. So while I'm not going to discount the possibility of my consciousness slipping back in time to an earlier version of myself in an alternate universe, I'm not at all convinced it was anything more than a very elaborate dream.}

That dream (and a couple others that didn't last for years, but have lasted a few weeks or days) threw me for more of a loop than any other LD. After that, I began to have serious thoughts considering whether or not I was actually going crazy. I tried to stop LDing (and was only slightly effective, since I had become so used to doing it by that then) for a few months. At some point I decided that it was very intense, and I hadn't been prepared to handle it (since I had never heard of layered dreams of that magnitude before). Sure, people sometimes have dreams where they wake up from sleep and go to work or school and in the middle of their day they wake up for real. It was like that, only it was the longer, more intense version.

About a year later I started deliberately exploring dream-layering in my LDs. It really is like the next level of lucid dreaming. The way I understand the progression of the oneironaut now is like this:
:arrow: Dreams you can't recall
:arrow: Hazy dreams you can sometimes recall
:arrow: Clear dreams you can recall
:arrow: Your first LD! (lasts for 20 seconds)
:arrow: Longer LDs and stabilization ("This is f*@king amazing!")
:arrow: Regular, stable LDs ("I totally got this down! I'm the freakin BOSS of LDs!")
:arrow: Your first layered dream from an LD ("WTF was THAT!?!")
:arrow: Freak the hell out
:arrow: Try to stop becoming lucid when dreaming ("This needs to stop before I completely lose myself!")
:arrow: Stop freaking out and just go back to regular LDs
:arrow: Your second layered dream ("Am I finally going crazy?")
:arrow: Your third layered dream (curiosity and, "I'm not crazy, there's just much more to dreams than I thought.")
:arrow: Your first intentional layered dream (This is literally some next-level sh*t going on here!")
:arrow: Intentionally creating and exploring multiple layers ("How far down does this rabbit hole go?")

As this last step here is where I have currently been for about 6.5 years now, I don't know if there are more steps beyond it, or if this is the final frontier step. I suppose only time will tell. I've only met 3 other people that have gone thru these same stages to intentionally creating and exploring multi-layered dreams (more have claimed to, but talking with them for a while made it clear they had only really watched the movie and were making up stories, so I don't count them.)

The movie Inception came out about 10 months after my first intentional layered dream. My first thought about it was, "I'm not the only one to have had this happen. Whoever wrote the screenplay for Inception has either experienced it themself, or knows someone who has." Ever since Inception hit theaters, interest in lucidity has spiked to an all-time high. I've never before seen so many people interested in lucidity.

In the few years since Inception was released, public interest in LDing has relaxed back out of the main stream again, but there are till WAY more people interested in becoming oneironauts (not to mention much more technology to help) now than there was before.

I don't know if the time-dilation effect expressed in Inception is an actual thing with layered dreams, but I've been trying to think of ways to figure that out during my current experiments with dream-layering. Sometimes it seems like it definitely is, and other times it doesn't, so that's still under investigation for me.

sometimes i'll start off in a dream where i'm not lucid, and then something like inception happens and i'll fall into a deeper dream where i do happen to be lucid.

That seems to be the pattern with layered dreams. The top-most (main) dream is one where I'm not lucid (according to the definition), as I mentioned above, but I do maintain full wakefulness and recall as if I were awake (I just don't know I'm still in a dream).

in these LDs though there's more of a fuzzy feeling, like i'm sort of submerged underwater and i don't feel 100% conscious like i do in normal LDs.

That's odd. I don't experience them that way. For me, one layer is much like another when it comes to how I feel (on a lucidity and consciousness level). I wonder if it's because your subconscious is still "testing the waters" as it were; trying it out, and taking baby steps toward dream-layering?

i'm interested to hear about your hallucinations.

There's not much to them. Here's what I experience (broken up by affected sense):

Visual~ Occasionally I'll see phantoms out of the corner of my eye, or what looks like a single colored thread moving thru open air as if it were a living thing swimming thru water (the actual color of the thread changes). I also see flashes of light rather regularly too.

Auditory~ I usually notice this type during times when there's no one around (like when I'm driving alone down an empty road in the middle of the night; which, when I was a night-time taxi driver, I used to do fairly often) I'll hear faint sounds that sound like anything from someone in another room listening to music, or people talking in a business meeting, or club music with people trying to talk over the music, etc. On rare occasions I can understand what's being said, but most times it's just out of range for me to make out actual words. When it comes to songs, sometimes they are ones I've heard, sometimes they aren't; I can usually make out the beat and rhythm rather well tho.

Touch~ Everything from a loose hair brushing across some part of my body (which could be actual hair, but this happens often and 99% of the time no amount of searching will uncover the offending hair), to feeling the sensation of touching/pressing/brushing/etc something warm/soft/icy/rough/sticky/etc. This type of hallucination happens fairly often.

Taste~ I rarely get flavor hallucinations, but they do happen occasionally. Just a sudden, random flavor in my mouth for no apparent reason. Thankfully it's usually not a nasty taste (tho that has happened before too).

Scent~ I don't know if I have hallucinatory smells, or if I just catch a whiff of something here or there that seems out of place enough for me to notice, but it doesn't seem to happen any more often than it happens to others (according to what people have told me), so for now I don't think I have this type of hallucination.

i personally find my auditory ones most unsettling, especially since they happen during sleep paralysis, but i've come to find my hypnagogic ones actually quite enjoyable especially since i've learned to control what i can see.

Right on! I don't have much experience with sleep paralysis. It happens on occasion, but since my practice involves laying as still as I can right after waking up while I mentally review my dreams (to help cement them in my memory) I'm not sure if I'd notice if it did happen (or if I'd see it as just being especially easy to remain motionless that particular time).

how did you first start practicing lucidity?

My first LD just happened one night when I was about 10 years old. At first I thought that was how everyone else experienced dreams, and like I might've been "dreaming the wrong way" before then. Because of that idea, I guess I kinda... willed :?: myself to LD after that?

My parents started homeschooling me when I was very young, so my mother told me I had to write at least a half page in my journal everyday as part of my writing practice. I was 8 when that started. I didn't know what to write most of the time so my mom suggested I write down my dreams in it each morning. So I started a dream journal at age 8 kinda by accident. Now I'm pretty sure that had a lot to do with my spontaneous LD beginnings.

I didn't know what LDs were, and just started playing with them when it happened. I liked the LDs more than regular dreams because I could remember more (to write in the journal) and I had awesome dream powers. I loved Spiderman back then, so the first dream powers I can remember using were climbing walls, slinging webs, and swinging on them thru the streets of my hometown.

Later on I learned that most people didn't dream like that (if they remembered their dreams), and they had little-to-no control over them. So I did what any young teenager did when they had a cool thing they could do that others didn't seem to - I shut my mouth and didn't tell anyone about them. Ahh, those teenage years... So worried about becoming an outsider instead of just being myself and setting the trend for others to follow.

my mom originally wanted me to see a sleep therapist when the LDs started getting bothersome, but i spoke to a friend about it and he suggested that maybe they were so bothersome because i was viewing them negatively, especially since they first started happening with no warning.

I've talked with sleep therapists before. I haven't found them to be especially helpful for anything ( :!: but that could be due to who I was talking to, and isn't likely to reflect all sleep therapists).

Personally, I agree with your friend. Being freaked out and scared of sudden weird stuff happening is natural for us humans. A change in perception can go a very long way towards turning something that can potentially be scary into something awesome and amazing. Of course, it seems you have already learned that yourself. ;)

these past few months though i've come to embrace and enjoy them

Awesome! It's great to hear that you've changed your perception of them, and can now enjoy them.

the only thing that bothers me now about them is that i'm still getting used to slipping into sleep paralysis without freaking out and the fact that i'll sometimes be very tired when i wake up due to being in such a state of consciousness at night.

Being fatigued due to being lucid while dreaming shouldn't happen, as your body isn't actually expending any extra energy to do it. It's happened to me on rare occasions, but there's almost always been some other reason for it, not just from being lucid. If you do talk to a sleep therapist (which might be a much better one than those I talked to ~17 years ago), this is what I suggest you talk about most.

Just keep in mind that therapists are there to help discover (and hopefully help to reduce or eliminate) the problem areas. If you bring up lucid dreaming in the context as that being the source of the problem, that might inadvertently cause the therapist focus on that as the problem, and they may miss the actual problem by doing so. So stick to the actual problems when talking to one (such as feeling drained and tired after waking).

I don't know too much about sleep paralysis, but there's lots of info online that you could look at. Maybe others with more direct experience with that phenomenon might have some suggestions to help with that.

i will definitely consider the MRI scan if things get out of control but fingers crossed they don't!

I hope everything is, and stays, awesome with you my friend!

I look forward to hearing back from you, but for now I'm going to cap off this ultra-mega-huge reply post.
Chat at cha again soon! 8-)



Demitri. Are you still available to chat? I know this post is a few years old...

lucidé
Posts: 576
Joined: 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Re: the life of a perma lucid dreamer. any others out there?

Postby lucidé » 06 Apr 2018 03:42

Most users from several years ago left this forum probably because of the invention of Reddit around that same time.
I have WILDs similarly like that user had every night and have had them since I was 3. If you have questions, feel free to ask.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g


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