Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

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Prince Demitri
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Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby Prince Demitri » 10 Jan 2016 22:33

This thread is opened as the discussion thread to accompany my Consolidated Lucidity Advice series.

Please feel free to comment, ask questions, challenge ideas, suggest updates, etc., for things in that series (or that you feel should be a part of that series), in this thread.
I will do my best to reply to them, and I look forward to discussions.

Thanks again for your understanding and consideration!
Cheers my fellow oneironauts! 8-)
Oneironaut experience: ~28 years
Average LDs per month: Usually 16 to 30 (depending on whether or not I want to)

I enjoy helping others and answering questions. 8-)

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Summerlander
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Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby Summerlander » 11 Jan 2016 00:14

One thing! :-D

DEILD is not WBTB. In the former, you remain in bed as you're on the verge of waking up but slip into a lucid dream state (often successful by getting out of bed to find oneself in a lucid dream environment--like a fake bedroom); in the latter, you leave your bed and stay up for a while to mitigate the sleep inertia symptoms--hence 'back to bed' ... :-)

It's all labels, anyway. Here is a link with a diagram on page 2 which I find much more helpful and captures the efficacy of DEILD if one takes the shortest route to lucid dreamland:

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16442

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Last edited by Summerlander on 11 Jan 2016 00:19, edited 1 time in total.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Prince Demitri
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Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby Prince Demitri » 11 Jan 2016 00:17

So you're saying the distinction is the amount of time you're awake before going back to sleep?
Or is it the act of getting out of bed and then back into it?
Or both?

Personally, I see both of those as useless distinctions.
Is there some constructive use to making such a distinction?
Last edited by Prince Demitri on 11 Jan 2016 00:21, edited 1 time in total.
Oneironaut experience: ~28 years
Average LDs per month: Usually 16 to 30 (depending on whether or not I want to)

I enjoy helping others and answering questions. 8-)

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Summerlander
Posts: 4197
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby Summerlander » 11 Jan 2016 00:20

Sorry just edited my post. Lol :-D

I found the link. I'd say both.

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Last edited by Summerlander on 11 Jan 2016 00:21, edited 1 time in total.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Prince Demitri
Posts: 157
Joined: 30 Dec 2015 11:47
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby Prince Demitri » 11 Jan 2016 00:21

So did I! :D


(*sigh* Your link a book! Be back in a bit after I read that :P )
Oneironaut experience: ~28 years
Average LDs per month: Usually 16 to 30 (depending on whether or not I want to)

I enjoy helping others and answering questions. 8-)

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Summerlander
Posts: 4197
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 19:52

Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby Summerlander » 11 Jan 2016 00:23

Lol! So did I! No use. They are just labels. We don't need them and I hardly use them these days. :mrgreen:

It's lucid-fucking-dreaming! :twisted:

[ Post made via Android ] Image
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Prince Demitri
Posts: 157
Joined: 30 Dec 2015 11:47
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby Prince Demitri » 11 Jan 2016 00:46

I agree that we don't need the labels. However, such labels help people (especially beginners) to make sense of the things discussed, and to give them some order to assist with discussion.

Since the DEILD label has no productive meaning apart from WBTB, it becomes a point of confusion to include it. And since the purpose is to provide clarity and minimize confusion, it's best (in my opinion) if DEILD were to be swept under the proverbial carpet and forgotten as an unproductive, and meaningless label.

I liked your "book" :P in the linked post. It reminded me that I may want to include a part about Dream Stabilization.

All the information and materials I used for my lucidity workshops was lost in a house fire some years ago, so my consolidation project is also serving as an outline to rebuild the workshop materials.

I appreciate you reviewing and commenting on this project, and hope you'll continue to do so as I continue to flesh it out. 8-)
Oneironaut experience: ~28 years
Average LDs per month: Usually 16 to 30 (depending on whether or not I want to)

I enjoy helping others and answering questions. 8-)

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shutterbugjen
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Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby shutterbugjen » 12 Jan 2016 15:46

Thank you for doing this, Dem! I look forward to seeing more installments in the Consolidation. I have a question for you, as a long-time oneironaut-- do lucid dreams come naturally to you now, or do you find yourself practicing particular techniques to induce lucidity? Do you find your level of lucidity to be different when you enter the lucid state in different ways? Thanks!
"for a dreamer, night's the only time of day..." -Jack Feldman, Santa Fe

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Prince Demitri
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Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby Prince Demitri » 12 Jan 2016 19:40

shutterbugjen wrote:Thank you for doing this, Dem! I look forward to seeing more installments in the Consolidation.

Thanks Jen! I hope it's helpful to many.

I have a question for you, as a long-time oneironaut-- do lucid dreams come naturally to you now, or do you find yourself practicing particular techniques to induce lucidity?

Excellent question! It's a little bit of both actually. I have a daily meditation practice (which will be outlined step-by-step in the meditation section of the project) which takes me about 5 minutes each morning, and another 5 to 10 minutes at night as I fall asleep. The morning meditation helps my day start off (and usually continue) with a bright and positive outlook about myself, others, and life. The evening meditation assists with targeting specific things I'd like to dream about, and enhances dream recall, vividity, stabilization, and lucid awareness when I dream.

I also continue to use reality checks during the day as a semi-regular thing I do. When my dream cycle (the natural cycle of dreaming which I believe is tied to hormonal cycles, which can increase or decrease the quality of my dreams) is low, I tend to focus on doing more reality checks in order to maintain good recall. However, when my dream cycle is high (when the quality of my dreams is better, and lucidity is easier), I focus less on reality checks, and more on targeting.

These days, even when I'm not trying to become lucid in my dreams, I average about a 50% chance to become lucid. So my conclusion there is that long term practice does lead to natural lucidity on a regular basis. When I intend to become lucid, I have an overall average about an 85% chance to become lucid (the day-to-day average fluctuates according to where I currently am in my dream cycle).

Do you find your level of lucidity to be different when you enter the lucid state in different ways?

Another awesome question! Yes. Tho I tend to think of this more as different types of lucid dreams instead of levels of lucidity. There are different qualities of dreams, each which acts as dimension unto itself. This is easiest to explain by using color and Cartesian coordinates (X, Y, Z axis for 3D space and T axis for time) as an analogy.

The axis in this analogy are different dimensions in space and time (or degrees of freedom) in our waking world, and I use them to highlight different dimensions within the dreamscape. You can have X and Y axis to give a location on the ground (like Latitude and Longitude), and a Z axis to give height (above/below sea level), and then give a specific time for someone to meet you there.

Dreams tend to have different types of dimensions which include vividity (clarity of the dream), control (how much of the dream you can control/dream powers), duration (which is an aspect of stability), engagement (how much, and what kinds of interaction you have with objects or characters), dream layers (dream within a dream), and lucidity, for example.

Each of these dream dimensions has a full spectrum; such as from having no control over a dream to having full control, as well as all the tiny increments between the two extremes. I liken this spectrum to the saturation of a color; blue for example can range from near black, to near white. The saturation levels of the various dream dimensions often fluctuate from dream to dream, but may also change many times within a single dream. Each dream dimension can be thought of as a different color; the blending of which produces the overall quality of the dream.

When I talk about different types of dreams (together with the analogy), I liken it to different art styles and mediums where color can be used for expression in different ways. For instance, there are "normal" dreams; there are "ultra real" dreams which feel more real than waking life (which is akin to vividity, but not quite the same, as here I'm talking about the way the dream feels as opposed to appears, tho they go hand-in-hand often); then there are "Out of Body Experiences" (OBE) and "Near Death Experiences" (NDE), which are another type of lucid dream; and many other types, some that don't have easily identifiable classifications.

Each type of dream has all the dream dimensions, and the full spectrum of each dimension to work with, like a color palette ready to be coupled to an art style to create a work of art. The main distinction between dream dimensions and dream types is that the type of dream is defined more by how the dreamer feels concerning the quality of a dream, whereas the dimensions are the combination of all the other ways the dreamer experiences the dream, as well as content.

Some of my current research is on identifying different dream dimensions and types, as well as trying to figure out what does and doesn't work to influence them.

So far, my findings suggest that the methods used to enter a lucid dream can have an effect on the likelihood of the type (art style) of the dreamscape. For instance, practicing a body trance (aka "disconnection" or "stiff body") style of meditation for a WILD induction has a high chance of inducing an OBE/NDE type of dream.

Of course, my research on ways to influence dream types and dimensions is still on-going. 8-)
Oneironaut experience: ~28 years
Average LDs per month: Usually 16 to 30 (depending on whether or not I want to)

I enjoy helping others and answering questions. 8-)

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shutterbugjen
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Re: Consolidated Lucidity Advice - Discussion

Postby shutterbugjen » 13 Jan 2016 16:02

Fantastic reply. Thank you!
"for a dreamer, night's the only time of day..." -Jack Feldman, Santa Fe


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