Hypnopompia

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HAGART
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Hypnopompia

Postby HAGART » 19 May 2016 06:40

Hypnopompia is the state of mind coming out of a dream, still half asleep but waking up. It's the opposite of entering hypnagogia which is talked about so much on this forum because it's of course the gateway to a lucid dream.

I would like to discuss the other side of the coin, hypnopompia for a change. I experience this all the time and can write more about it, but for now, I want the first post to be very simple and let the conversation start from here.

(I must say, I had a really hard time spelling those and still this forum underlines them in red as if they're not real words. :lol: )
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby HAGART » 19 May 2016 07:01

I read before that Salvador Dali, the eccentric painter, use to use this state for inspiration. I too play movies in me head or hear a conversation that is so bizarre I can't put it into words. Most thought is based on analogies and this frame of mind is when we think analogically the most. Our minds have a strange ability to compare two seemingly opposite things. It can be very confusing, and makes no sense, but I feel it's important to examine. I think most people never talk about it because it's so hard to explain. It's the epitome of abstract thought.

I hope others take an interest in this and talk more, and I will keep a pencil and paper beside my bed and try, as hard as it is, to record some of my experiences. This is such a broad subject and there is so much we can talk about.

Lucid dreaming is amazing, but the fringe states of mind are equally worth discussing.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

astrovineyard
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby astrovineyard » 19 May 2016 18:12

Almost 100% of my unusual experiences - including sleep paralysis and nightmares - were hypnopompic events. The dream would go wrong and I would try to wake up to avoid the nightmare as it became more scary, but ironically this just plunged me into the clutches of SP - loud buzzing, vibrations, paralysis, heavy crushed feeling, stuck to bed, unable to breathe or scream or even open my eyes (since they were still closed from being in the nightmare and asleep). I know that is an odd combination but that was my experience.

I also drew inspiration from these ultra-terrifying experiences, but instead of art I tried to depict them musically, or rather with sound. Not just because I'm a musician, but to me the experience was more sensory and auditory than visual. I couldn't depict how it felt physically but I could try to duplicate the sounds and combine that with things that produced the same emotion of extreme terror.

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HAGART
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby HAGART » 19 May 2016 19:04

Sleep paralysis is a hypnopompic event, but then again what if it happens in the middle of the night, and I continue dreaming, like I've experienced? We shouldn't split hairs.

In fact, I think I might even be confusing hypnagogia and hypnopompia at times because they really are so similar. If I wake from a dream, lay still and go back to dreaming, it's going to be both isn't it? When I mentioned Salvador Dali, the story goes, that he would rest with a spoon in his hand, so when he dozed off, the spoon would fall and wake him up. I guess technically, that's hypnagogia.

To me, this is the difference: During hypnagogia, our waking mind feels more natural and we get sudden dream thoughts that seem bizarre, but during hypnopompia we feel more at home in a dreamy state, and it's the waking thoughts that seem distant to us at time.

Another interesting hypnopompic event is when you get visual residuals. It's when you wake up from a dream but can still sort of see the dream and reality at the same time, like it burned an image on your retinas. I've only had that a few times, and the last time it happened, I actually think I dozed off into a short dream in the morning with my eyes open. I've heard it's possible.

This morning I was in that half-asleep state again, and remember my inner voice rambling on as if it were reading something. I even saw the faint image of words, but it was all gibberish, so I didn't write it down. It really is hard to recall what happens in that state of mind.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby Summerlander » 19 May 2016 19:15

Hypnopompia is an opportunity to lucidly return to a dream. I think I've used this state a lot to induce lucid dreams. The DEILD method finds its application here. In the case of WILDs, you tend to use hypnagogia to initiate the experience, and hypnopompia when it collapses in an attempt to resume lucid dreaming.

Hagart, with practice you will be able to recall hypnopompic events as the state becomes more familiar to you. And familiarity can promote lucidity. If the latter occurs, be sure to run at a hundred miles per hour away from the waking state. In essence, what you are doing is borrowing from wakefulness in order to recognise a dream when one manifests itself. Voila! Lucid dreaming! 8-)

Even though I keep banging on about the juicy lucid dream state, I do agree with you, Hagart, that hypnopompia, or any other sleep-related state, can be just as interesting to examine. In fact, even the waking state can become something special if you look closely in meditation, mindfulness, and the contemplation of all the brain porkies (perceptual illusions) derived from observing reality. :-)
Last edited by Summerlander on 19 May 2016 19:50, edited 1 time in total.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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HAGART
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby HAGART » 19 May 2016 19:42

I've never had a true WILD then, but have had quite a few DEILDs, and sometimes in a row, which has been dubbed, "Dream Chaining". It certainly is a heck of a lot easier to sleep after a dream when our mind is already full of all the sleep chemicals that knock us out. Staying aware, and not getting lost in the confusion is a challenge though.

I said in the OP that everyone talks about hypnagogia because it's a gateway to a lucid dream, but actually, hypnopompia is too, and probably a lot easier for beginners to experiment with. (Perhaps one leads to the other). If you have a snooze button on your alarm clock, you can get a lot of practice in just one morning. It's annoying, I know, but you will experience odd thoughts, vivid images, short dreams that are like a really deep daydream.

The more familiar you are with this state of mind, the easier it should be to stay consciously aware. That's my theory, anyway. It's worth a shot.

(I just finished writing this and noticed you added more to your post. I basically said the same thing. Great minds think a like)
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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Summerlander
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby Summerlander » 19 May 2016 19:52

Sorry, I just edited my last post. I'm buzzing so I'm typing in segments. :mrgreen:

Dream chaining! That's it! :shock:

This is what I've been preaching to the masses but I never really bothered to name it! We should all be dream chaining, Hagart!
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

astrovineyard
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby astrovineyard » 20 May 2016 00:55

Well I once thought it was splitting hairs to differentiate between the hypnogogic (while falling asleep) and hypnopompic (waking up) state, but hey, it wasn't me who coined the two separate terms.

There may be similarities to the experiences, or overlap, but I think it is because different conditions trigger them. For example, those with narcolepsy will experience the hypnogogic variety more often. And as far as quality goes, the idea that you have fallen asleep and into REM too quickly says something too, rather than merely waking up during your normal REM phase. And the experience of having your waking reality bleed into an SP episode can have a different kind of disturbing terror than coming out of an already surreal nightmare you've become lucid in and are trying to wake yourself up from.

Only once did I experience "sequential" SP, which was my mistake because upon waking up I closed my eyes too soon again, only to be "sucked" back into the SP. Now, was this a hypnagogic event? I would say no, because one could argue that I hadn't properly woken up from the previous episode, and might have still been under the spell/shroud of REM - or perhaps it was a false awakening and not two separate dream events.

Either way, I find it almost impossible to trigger these things, and for whatever reason they never happen by surprise anymore (and when they very rarely do, I snap awake in a split second by reflex). So I seem immune to SP anymore and related lucid phenomena. And trying to do it either fails, or backfires into insomnia, where I become too anxious and expectant for something to happen that I can't fall asleep. Somewhere between falling asleep unknowingly or not falling asleep at all for being to conscious and vigilant is this happy medium you guys have found.

2015 was my epic insomnia year because of that and took me all year to battle it, including getting prescription sleep aids for the first time. It was NOT fun, so I am reluctant to try again in case it all backfires on me like that.

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HAGART
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby HAGART » 20 May 2016 01:53

astrovineyard wrote:Well I once thought it was splitting hairs to differentiate between the hypnogogic (while falling asleep) and hypnopompic (waking up) state, but hey, it wasn't me who coined the two separate terms.


I want to find whoever made up those words and slap them in the face. I'm reluctant to talk about this more because of how hard they are to spell. :lol: One is Hypnopompic, which makes etymological sense, based off the Greek god of sleep, but why Hypnagogic, with an "A"? Let's agree not to care about spelling from this point on.

I found him! Frederic W. H. Myers, consider yourself slapped! :evil:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hypnopompic

hypnopompic (adj.) 
"pertaining to the state of consciousness when awaking from sleep," 1897, coined by English man of letters Frederic W. H. Myers (1843-1901) from hypno-"sleep" + second element from Greek pompe "sending away," from pempein "to send" (see pomp).
Hypnagogic -- Illusions hypnagogiques (Maury) are the vivid illusions of sight or sound--"faces in the dark," etc.--which sometimes accompany the oncoming of sleep. To similar illusions accompanying the departure of sleep, as when a dream-figure persists for a few moments into waking life, I have given the name hypnopompic. [F.W.H. Myers, "Glossary of Terms used in Psychical Research," Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research, vol. XII, 1896-97, supplement] 


By hypnagogic paramnesia I mean a false memory occurring in the antechamber of sleep, but not necessarily before sleep. Mr. Myers' invention of the word "hypnopompic" seems to me unnecessary except for pedantic reasons. I take the condition of consciousness to be almost the same whether the sleep is coming on or passing away. In the dream I have recorded it is even impossible to say whether the phenomenon is "hypnagogic" or "hypnopompic"; in such a case the twilight consciousness is as much conditioned by the sleep that is passing away as by the sleep that is coming on. [H. Ellis, "A Note on Hypnagogic Paramnesia," in "Mind," vol. VI, 1897]


So, yea, the two are basically the same phase state with just different ways to get there. It's much easier after a dream when our minds are groggy though.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.

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HAGART
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Re: Hypnopompia

Postby HAGART » 20 May 2016 02:19

astrovineyard wrote:Only once did I experience "sequential" SP, which was my mistake because upon waking up I closed my eyes too soon again, only to be "sucked" back into the SP. Now, was this a hypnagogic event? I would say no, because one could argue that I hadn't properly woken up from the previous episode, and might have still been under the spell/shroud of REM - or perhaps it was a false awakening and not two separate dream events.


Yes, I know what you mean. I have sometimes woken up in the night and fell back to asleep to get that familiar buzzing in my ears, and feeling heavy or floating or rocking out of bed and get into a lucid dream that way. I think to myself, "That was easy!" Only after I wake up do I realize, I was actually having a 'false sleepening'. I was still in a dream and it was not my real bed.

All these states are very similar, and Michael Raduga, coined the term, "The Phase", which I too have adopted. (The name might ring a bell for Summerlander ;) ) A lot of odd things happen during those transitional moments when a dream is starting and our bodies are falling under the spell of muscle atonia. What is sleep paralysis, but a false awakening nightmare in which we have no control over our dream bodies? Even the term tossed around so loosly here, SP, is always different each time. It can be nightmarish, I know, and have experienced that, but other times, after growing more accustomed to it, they're benign. If you can move, it's just a lucid dream starting from your own 'dream bed'.

I'm glad you got over your insomnia. Thinking too much about all this when you sleep can certainly keep you up. Instead, passively allow your mind to just drift off into random thought with only mild questioning. Comment to yourself, "That was an odd thought. I just saw something. Did I hear a voice? What did it say?", and keep doing that, not in words, but in thought. That is how you stay aware of it. I'm not telling this to you specifically, astrovineyard, but for others reading, and even for myself to remember to do that.
If we all lucid dreamed this world would be a better place.


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