Toepedia Debate

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Summerlander
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Toepedia Debate

Postby Summerlander » 22 Aug 2016 17:23

It's a Facebook group I joined recently out of curiosity. I ended up having a fierce debate with Fred Jacobs, a member of Thomas Campbell's TOE cult, after he posted and endorsed this quote:

'Let yourself be silently drawn by the strange pull of what you really love. It will not lead you astray.

~Rumi

So this is how the debate is going so far:

Summerlander: Does this advice apply to serial killers, rapists and child molesters?

Fred Jacobs: Well of course when they outgrow their negative addictions, and proceed ahead to that of positive ones!

Summerlander: Psychopaths can't outgrow their urges---many of which entail hurting others. The quote does entail giving into 'the pull of what you really love'. Some individuals derive pleasure from destructive actions. Like Hitler, for example, who loved war and conquest. Either the quote above is fallacious or incomplete---the latter meaning the meme failed to mention that it's only applicable to benign persons. It tells me that Rumi was naive.

Fred Jacobs: Actually you are the naive one for associating fear base negative addictions, with that of unconditional love based paths. That of which when one is on, the system will naturally help in opening up. By nudging ones within certain ranges, when appropriate. That of what you speak of, leaves one freely to travel that path, but with no help from The LCS.

Summerlander: What the hell are you talking about, Fred? I'm going to do my best to parse your bad grammar before I address your apparent specious argument ... First, explain to me what you class as 'fear-based negative addictions' and point out to me where I mention 'unconditional love' (no such thing, by the way) in my previous statement. Also, Earth calling Fred, where is this alleged association? Secondly, what do you mean by a system 'nudging ... when appropriate'? You seem to imply the existence of an assisting, intelligent agent, something of an interfering deity. Again, no evidence that such is the case. You suffer from the 'God of the Gaps' syndrome, it seems. Finally, what's 'LCS'? I'm not familiar with the acronym ...

Fred Jacobs: LOL Arlindo Batistao At least try and be open to MBT in listening to some of the videos. And as always take out of what you find here that may be usable and simply leave the rest! LCS= Larger Consciousness System", of which we are apart of, and evolving along with. My point was that something as intelligent as this, that could create a universe, is not dumb enough to help along a fear base entity to pull its self down. We are apart of an evolving consciousness system, that wants the best for us due to its in its best interest. LOL the evidence is in the love! Not your jump back fear based ego! that is in the service of your arrogant Fear!

Summerlander: I've read TOE ages ago---so thanks for reminding me about the acronym---and there is no real evidence in it whatsoever. It should be called fallacious HOE instead of TOE. (HOE for 'hypothesis of everything!) I can't simply leave 'the rest', by the way. There's a reason why people criticise ideas: so we can all refine our understanding and grow. And what do you mean something as 'intelligent as this'? Scientists can already see that genetics could produce super-geniuses that far exceed the few that we have or have had. Instead, nature blindly produces mediocrity via natural selection. Evolution is a process that involves more death than survival. The waste: 99% of all the species that have ever existed on Earth have gone extinct. As Carl Sagan once put it, 'extinction is the rule, survival is the exception'. Not to mention that the universe is mostly hostile to life. So, whose 'intelligent design' is that? There is no higher consciousness. There is just consciousness in its many forms, my friend. Love is the product of chemicals like oxytocin in complex systems such as our own, and, in some ways, a survival instinct. In other occasion, love is clearly a misfiring of an otherwise useful thing. No more no less. Love does not evidence higher consciousness in any way. Any intelligent creator that would have fear-inducing and faulty systems is dumb enough anyway! Why have something which won't be helped? But even fear has been useful in aiding survival. So your logic is doubly faulty. Fear-based ego is your tendency to think you are something special and part of something with a purpose. There is no real purpose to anything other than what us humans decide for ourselves. Deal with it, my friend. Teleology is a falacy.

Fred Jacobs: LOL you are consistent and quite predictable, as are most of your hand waving types! Always trying to convince yourselves, that your arrogance has meaning in the bigger picture. 'LOL" Actually it does for me, you and your likes are if nothing else very amusing and entertaining!! Now since you boast of such great knowings. Might i suggest when you have a big slap in the face, as your types most often do. Open that book up and read it. So as to see just how all of this basically works!!

Summerlander: Predictable is the LOLing in all your failed counterarguments as well as being a hallmark of arrogance. It's funny that you accuse others, like Claudio Soprano, of the very traits you exhibit. The so-called TOE you subscribe to has failed to convince the world because it's based on nothing more than speculation and pseudoscience. Your hero, Mr. Cambell, even urges people to be open-minded to the point where his minions lose all reason and fail to address truisms about reality. You, yourself, were so convinced that this world exhibits intelligence in its natural design that you failed to take into consideration its cornucopia of aspects that make it the shoddy work of a Creator if there was ever one: psychopaths, cancers, viruses, earthquakes, tsunamis and many other things that have afflicted or killed an untold number of people. The only 'big slap in the face' I'll get is the one everyone eventually gets when they lose loved ones, grow old, and die---evidence that there is no higher power that cares in this impersonal universe. And while you rack your brain looking for a reason why you got 'slapped', I'll already know why I got mine: C'est la vie! :-D

'If you want to assert a "truth", first make sure it's not an opinion that you desperately want to be true.'

~Neil Degrasse Tyson

Now that's a quote you ought to be taking heed of! ;-)

What a strange hold Mr. Campbell has on his minions ... :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Summerlander
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Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Summerlander » 22 Aug 2016 22:00

Continuation:

Fred Jacobs: I see you have found some value in this post if nothing else it has given you a boast to your hand waving fantasy's, Of there even being a counter argument. LOL you are very entertaining and i do appreciate you being another jack in the box!!

Summerlander: At least this jack-in-the-box doesn't spout forth fantasies. Everything I've asserted is factual and observable and isn't afraid to come across as arrogant---and informing is not the same as boasting. If you feel that I boast, or 'boost' my ego (I can't decipher your grammatical errors), then you obviously feel that I've trodden on your toes ... or TOE. Which makes me wonder, where is your counterargument besides reiterating the same ad hominems? The latter indicating defeat. Unlike you, I don't pass off conjectures as truisms. At least you did recognise my statements as constituting a counterargument. There's that 'LOL' again ... Is it nervous laughter or are you trying to convince me that I didn't get to you? Ego preservation much? People may accuse me of character assassination here but I'd say those I impugn committed character suicide. :-D

Fred Jacobs: LOL you are just as old Clau was in his hay day! Always thinking that you actually had a point, and that you were making some headway! Thanks again for your complements in letting me know i am doing it right. I Just love this PMR! "LOL" Claudio, Smiles, and you up to plate for the 3rd strike out!! You's types just seem to never get it. At least you's hanging in there Summerlander.

Summerlander: Oh I think and I do have a point. And Claudio---I may not agree with everything he says, bless him---probably did too. At least he engaged and addressed what he didn't agree with. So far, you haven't addressed one iota of everything I've said and I doubt that you ever could in a clear and consistent manner. All you've pointed out was my apparent 'hand-waving' tactics and arrogance and told me to read your TOE Bible. Your brain must also be semantically challenged: I didn't let you know you're right, it was precisely the opposite. More ad hominems, I see, and still nothing to bring to the table of adult conversations.

Fred Jacobs: LOL actually i think you would be wasting your time trying to read the books, "LOL" what a joke to say that you have. when it is obvious you are clueless. The model is only for ones who are becoming aware of bigger pictures, there is never any defending it. For the truth never needs defending!

Summerlander: It's funny. Bible bashers adopt the same approach. Because of this moronic approach, the truth does need to be defended against its unreasonable and pharisaic naysayers. You have merely joined a pseudoscientific cult and clueless is the pot calling the kettle black. You believe you have the bigger picture whilst being intellectually blind. I had the TOE and sold it because I found it to be utter BS. Me and Claudio called out Campbell on his scientific inconsistencies and dishonesty about the context of scientific quotes from figures like Einstein years ago. Campbell refused to engage in our inquisition, and, like a coward, merely adopted ad hominems like you without addressing the issues that needed to be addressed. It was as if his guru composure had been compromised. But I already predict your reaction to this since you bought into his facade. 'The model is only for those who are becoming aware of bigger pictures'. How egotistical! You keep telling yourself that. And I'm the one who is arrogant ... :-D

* Claudio Soprano is a quantum physicist who once teamed up with me against Thomas Campbell in pointing out inconsistencies in his theory and lying about the context in which scientists like Einstein made certain statements. Campbell merely said people who disagree with his trilogy lack understanding and open-mindedness and accused us of being rude before refusing to engage in our inquisition. Shortly afterwards, me and Claudio disagreed about certain matters regarding consciousness and the nature of reality. We fell out but reconciled our differences recently.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Dane
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Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Dane » 23 Aug 2016 10:29

what the hell does this fred-guy mean by "hand waving fantasies" :?:
I returned from the abyss, as a married man. :D

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Summerlander
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Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Summerlander » 23 Aug 2016 11:16

I was thinking the same thing. I guess he's accusing me and Claudio of disagreeing with opinions just for the sake of being different, for attention. He uses that term a lot every time someone disagrees with him. :roll:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Dane
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Joined: 14 Jun 2016 12:17

Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Dane » 23 Aug 2016 17:50

Aah, so its not actually anything, so he made it up, in other words, a fantasy. :lol: :lol:

Well i'd suggest you keep stretching that middle finger of yours and wave that back at him,
WITHOUT giving a fuck what his opinion's about you are :mrgreen:
I returned from the abyss, as a married man. :D

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Summerlander
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Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Summerlander » 23 Aug 2016 18:08

Dane wrote:Aah, so its not actually anything, so he made it up, in other words, a fantasy. :lol: :lol:

Well i'd suggest you keep stretching that middle finger of yours and wave that back at him,
WITHOUT giving a fuck what his opinion's about you are :mrgreen:


Oh I'm doing exactly that and it's fun! :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Dane
Posts: 202
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 12:17

Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Dane » 24 Aug 2016 06:28

Summerlander wrote:
Dane wrote:Aah, so its not actually anything, so he made it up, in other words, a fantasy. :lol: :lol:

Well i'd suggest you keep stretching that middle finger of yours and wave that back at him,
WITHOUT giving a fuck what his opinion's about you are :mrgreen:


Oh I'm doing exactly that and it's fun! :mrgreen:


i know :lol: :D
I returned from the abyss, as a married man. :D

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Summerlander
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Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Summerlander » 25 Aug 2016 12:29

Now Carlos, one of his mates, came up with the non-sequitur that Tom Campbell's model of reality blows my criticism out of the water because his guru said he doesn't mind being proved wrong. I asked him if he was feeling okay and that criticism is still justified and his theory still wrong regardless of how he feels about being proved wrong.

Anyway, Campbell doesn't possess that king of humility. Me and Claudio confronted him years ago and his reaction was quite the opposite. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Dane
Posts: 202
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 12:17

Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Dane » 25 Aug 2016 15:35

i can imagine its frustrating dealing with people like this..
that why i don't :D hahaha

but why bother actually ?
I returned from the abyss, as a married man. :D

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Summerlander
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Re: Toepedia Debate

Postby Summerlander » 25 Aug 2016 18:23

Sometimes I ask myself that question. But then my mood changes and that coltish voice in my head tell me, 'Go on, have some fun ...' :D
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava


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