WILD vs Astral Projection

Discuss lucid dreaming techniques including dream recall, MILD, WILD, meditation and other ways of attaining lucidity in dreams.
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Price
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WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby Price » 01 Feb 2017 06:49

Ok Fine, I have to say that I have had a change of heart.

Learning more about WILD experiences I have to say that I now think that MY experiences that I once called Astral Projections are now WILDS.

I also think that it is interesting that WILD is a very new term and that looking back at my old Astral Projection books (pre WILD termonology) is still pretty interesting because the old Astral Projection techniques that I learned from work, but just not the way the authors think it does. .

As much as I appreciate science and want to encourage the study of dreaming and such. I have to say that the poetry and adventure of Astral Projection is alluring. I still might call it Astral Projection because WILD is just not sexy.

DreamerMan99
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby DreamerMan99 » 28 Mar 2017 21:18

I don't think astral projection is real. I think most of OBE's and Astral Projections are just mistaken WILD's and lucid dreams.
Last edited by DreamerMan99 on 28 Mar 2017 22:43, edited 1 time in total.
Good luck,
Dream on.

lucidé
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby lucidé » 28 Mar 2017 22:15

Except that a lucid dream is when a user is aware they are dreaming. If the user is not aware it is a dream, it is not a "lucid dream".

For example, if the user becomes aware they are dreaming like say for example, during a medical procedure, when you only have a 20% chance of even inducing a dream to begin with, the perspective of the lucid dream completely changes, and the goals and perspective often become completely different than that of one who is non-lucid. This also does not change the probability ratio of hitting or watching the desired target either in the lucid dream or in the non-lucid dream, as everyone has the exact same odds of doing this in both the lucid and the non-lucid dream. It all depends on if the odds work in your favor or not.

Just so many users are aware, it is also possible for a person to consciously enter a dream WILD style, and still not become aware of their dream. Often this is the reason for several different forms of False Awakenings, especially when a user might believe they just snapped themselves out of the SP stage.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

Petal
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby Petal » 04 Apr 2017 12:33

I'm not opposed to learning new techniques or revaluing my ideas about what I think I'm at when I find myself floating about the house aimlessly. It is more that, I'm finding it difficult to relate new ideas to past experiences. Ideas of what the lucid experience are, have changed, the new techniques are mostly updated and improved versions of what I learnt a good many years ago.
My techniques might seem outdated but they are effective in becoming lucid. Control of my dream body is another thing entirely. I have read that dancers can be better equipped for lucid dreaming dreaming as they are practiced in the awareness of their spatial form in time and space. Although, I'm not particularly clumsy in relation to other people, I do seem to have some minor physical coordination inabilities. I can only skip rope, not jump it and I can not use swimming breast stroke legs I have to use front stroke legs. (All my physical coaches have found me extremely funny.) Maybe my inability to coordinate somehow extends to dreams. Then again I've read about fully disabled people being able to do things in dreams that they are unable to do in waking.
As Price explain the two technique of out of body WILDS and out of body astral projection seem very similar. Please then, someone, correct me, if following few sentences are a misunderstanding. The difference between an astral projection and a WILD out of body lucid dream, is that in astral projection the etheric body is meant to split from the physical body and go out into the physical universe, where as the WILD out of body lucid dream is an experience generated entirely within the mind. Even thought the experience of a WILD, or any other out of body lucid dream, can be deceptively sensual and realistic, conscious thought can not operate outside a living biological nervous system.
I'm quit dyslexic, employed to support people with more severe learning challenges as I am patient and can empathise with their frustrations. Compared to so called "normal" learners, I seem to be missing the ability to sequence process logically, (I connect things by visual association mostly), I've little awareness of time passing and I have a poor short term memory. It makes life interesting, to be sure. I see the bigger picture, a goal or the destination in detail but my mind naturally jumps ahead of the necessary processing to get there and is quite content with guesstimates. An example of this, when learning to read I would voice an incorrect word with a similar meaning to the one on the picture-less page. My teacher would think I was reading all the letters and muddling words as I spoke them. In fact, I was simply skimming the words I recognised and making very fast estimations of what I thought each sentence meant as a whole. If I do this in subconscious dream processing, I may be missing out sequence steps of technique that course my strange drifting experiences. I feel as if I should pull back and focus more on the steps of my lucid dream practices, take more care in preparing for sleep and tighten up my reality checking practices. Any other suggestions for regulating dreams and getting into a healthy sleep routine would be highly appreciated. I know that I'm asking a lot of myself by doing the work I do. People with cognitive challenge function better in routines but to get bed and wake up at regular times when working irregular shifts.
The more I learn about learning challenges, the more I understand that everybody has them. At work, I do have to hide my laughter when my clients make fanciful predictions of things they think will happen and then get mad because reality doesn't pan out as they think it should. I often see myself and so called "normal" people make similar mistakes, just not quit so frequently or obviously. There are lots of strange behaviours that all people do and I think the dreaming consciousness can amplify cognitive and behaviour strangeness.
My point is, it is difficult for us to all agree on dream realities because we all think in subtly different ways. It seems insensitive and unhelpful to squash people spiritual beliefs in relation to their view of reality. Even though, some people beliefs seem nonsensical, ill supported by science or widely agreed facts, that is no reason to discount those beliefs as unimportant to them. Also, people won't change core beliefs or behaviours until they can comprehend a good reason to do so. When working with a s supporting other people it is easier to accept their current understanding and beliefs, introducing new ideas in relation to what individuals can already associate with. It certainly courses less friction, than pointing out, what appears to be faults, errors or failings.
Also by disregarding others opinions as illogical and/or in an off hand manner, may lead to limiting personal opportunities to learning something new, magical and valuable. Amanda Baggs in the second half of her video "In my Language" expresses this much more eloquently than I can. Although she is not expressing ideas about dreams, she seems to be enjoying her waking reality with a level of lucidity, enjoyment and sensuality few people manage on a daily basis. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc
Acronyms titles for new technique and abbreviations are not, for obvious reasons, my favourite things to learn. I simply don't remember them that well. Putting that aside, I seem to use a mishmash of the newer techniques. I do often highjack normal dreams and turn them lucid by using focused awareness with reality checks, as in the DILD technique and I do use a kind of semi sleeping meditation similar as described in the WILD technique of observing the hypnagogia.
I don't like the vibrational, kinetic or rocking techniques exiting out of the body technique that I learnt to have an out of body astral experience because they seem to weaken and disturb my physical body. I get fatigued and eye ache from too much R.E.M. at night. Sometimes now and again, I'll wake from lucid dreams with an accelerated heart rate which is unpleasant. I have regular health checks, so I know that I have no underlying problem that would course these symptoms.
Although, my "out of physical body" experiences are the most vivid and enjoyable, if what I'm doing is not an astral projection, I see no reason to continue with the same type of energy splitting/unsettling practices. This in mind, I have been trying out, the last month, a hand observation/visualisation technique which did result in a calm, gradual and controlled out of body lucid dream. I did also "get a hit" on achieving my full dream purpose with a satisfying ease. I simply want more "hits" per month of that calm caliber, lucidly and visual vividness. My thinking is to build a visual dream body, then transfer my awareness into it by gradual reality checking in relation to body awareness. I check my hands and body thought out the day. I know what that feels like in time and space. I tell myself it is the same or similar in my lucid body. No splitting of my "energy/ethereal" body from the physical is then required.
Anyhow, Kind Regards. I hope to see you about...

lucidé
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby lucidé » 05 Apr 2017 23:47

The only difference I can see between your 2 different interpretations of the technique is one is a calm, peaceful, and safe lucid dream technique that anyone could use. The other is a scary creepy pasta that users should just stay the heck away from for their own safety.
I'll just talk about lucid dreaming about the accurate version of the real world then. At a slightly higher skill, it becomes possible to see a completely accurate version of real life, because this depends on the level of memory. Also it is possible to read open books and notes from real life, it also depends on the user's memory and ability to read in real life. Detecting the weather depends on a user's sense of smell. There is a low probability that dream spying may happen when it comes to exploring new places or seeing events in them, but it is always possible. With a lucid dream, you know things such as flying, replication, and invisibility are not real, so as soon as you see something such as yourself flying, invisibility, or that you cloned yourself, if you didn't know before, you know as soon as you see these dream signs.
Also, there is nothing better than lucid dreaming during times where it is either too difficult or impossible to keep awake in real life, and still get to lucid dream about that situation in real life. When I was struggling so bad to keep awake in class back in high school because of the awful side effects to my sleep medication, but when I realized I could listen to the lecture in a lucid dream, I just transferred my awareness into my dream body, and safely in my lucid dream, wide awake and alert, I was able to fly up right out of my seat (cloning myself), and I was able to listen to the entire lecture, including reading what was on the board while I was in my lucid dream.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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Summerlander
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby Summerlander » 06 Apr 2017 16:57

Price, I completely agree with you. Astral projection is an amazing concept but the whole shebang is nothing but a fantasy. The dreaming mind can make you believe in just about anything because we humans can imagine anything. It can seem like we separate from our bodies and visit other realms but the truth is that our brain is quite capable of producing such illusions. Lucid dreaming is all there is and actually the best form of the practice of being consciously awake in dreams. People who believe they have OBEs and astral projection mistake their experience for what it actually is whilst lucid dreams correctly identify what they perceive in their sleep---they know it's a dream.

Congrats! You are know at the advanced stages of the practice. You recognise it is all an illusion. Lucid dreaming is the way. It is the only way. 8-)
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

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Domintheos
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby Domintheos » 06 Apr 2017 18:09

DreamerMan99 wrote:I don't think astral projection is real. I think most of OBE's and Astral Projections are just mistaken WILD's and lucid dreams.


I'd have to disagree with you on that one--having over 20 years of lucid dream experience, there's a clear difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection; both are essentially the same thing, lucid dreaming is just a lesser form of astral projection. I've even developed a full theory explaining the matter.

Care to debate?
Lucid Dreaming is Life.

lucidé
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby lucidé » 06 Apr 2017 19:45

I've been having WILDs and used dream spying and dream meshing in some very specific WILDs. While slightly different from some of my other lucid dreams, I still consider them a lucid dream because you cannot fly in real life.
Lucid dreaming is life, ghosts are a creepy pasta, fine I will accept your argument on why lucid dreaming is so much better and why the users would do better on staying in their lucid dreams.

Time to set the mood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9We2XsVZfc (roasts up some marshmallows by crossing the beams)
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g

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Domintheos
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby Domintheos » 06 Apr 2017 20:10

lucidé wrote:I've been having WILDs and used dream spying and dream meshing in some very specific WILDs. While slightly different from some of my other lucid dreams, I still consider them a lucid dream because you cannot fly in real life.


Hello lucidé,

I'm new to the forum so please excuse my approach, but i'm curious as to your concept of dreams. Seeing as how you practice the WILD technique--I'd like to pick your mind a bit.
1) When practicing the WILD technique and successful, about "How Long" do your lucid dream experiences last?
2) Before forging the "Dream-Scape" and becoming lucid--where is all the activity happening, and from what source?
3) After accomplishing WILD, do you continuously WILD yourself throughout the dream world--or does it transition into DILDs?

Thank you, and i'm looking forward to your response.
Lucid Dreaming is Life.

lucidé
Posts: 612
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Re: WILD vs Astral Projection

Postby lucidé » 06 Apr 2017 21:06

Domintheos wrote:Hello lucidé,

I'm new to the forum so please excuse my approach, but i'm curious as to your concept of dreams. Seeing as how you practice the WILD technique--I'd like to pick your mind a bit.
1) When practicing the WILD technique and successful, about "How Long" do your lucid dream experiences last?
2) Before forging the "Dream-Scape" and becoming lucid--where is all the activity happening, and from what source?
3) After accomplishing WILD, do you continuously WILD yourself throughout the dream world--or does it transition into DILDs?

Thank you, and i'm looking forward to your response.


1) It varies, but usually 2-3 hours. Because my medications cause REM Rebound, I have really long WILDs. Although when I was a child and a teenager before I got medicated, they only lasted 1-2 hours.
There are however exceptions to this. Due to the fact in some of my WILDs, I seriously cannot wake up from them until I return to where I started, I have managed to make them last over 4 hours long. One of my best examples is when I transferred my awareness to my dream body, and then induced a WILD, cloning myself at the start of the lucid dream. It was 1:15AM (yes I can tell time in some of my lucid dreams), and while I was flying through some of the alleyways downtown, I managed to dream spy (lucid dreaming about an event that is really happening http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Dream_Scrying) on a crime scene of a pervert dumping his wife's body into a dumpster. I just hung around and waited 4 hours for the truck to come and take the remains to the dump, so I could find out where the remains were going to end up in my lucid dream, and ended my lucid dream around 5:47AM (that lucid dream was over 4.5 hours, one of my longest on record)
2. Varies on the WILD. See I induce a WILD in 2 different ways. One way is I wait until I am in a full trans stage or I am in SP. Either way I will usually imagine what type of dream I wish to enter, and I will enter directly into it. I imagine the source is coming from my subconscious or the creativeness of my multimedia brain. The second way I enter a WILD, and this may sound weird but I've been doing it since high school, is I transfer my awareness into my dream body. Once in my dream body, all that's left is to clone myself and enter the dream version of the room I induced the WILD in. I am absolutely sure this WILD is still happening in my brain as well. Well it doesn't mean it isn't fun, and sometimes in this type of WILD I end up dream spying, which makes it that much more exciting.

3) WILD myself into dream world? Well that's a good question. I am pretty well aware I am dreaming the whole time. I don't think a WILD can turn into a DILD, unless I pass out during my lucid dream, and regain consciousness in the lucid dream again. Then I imagine it could turn into either a MILD or a DILD.
An example of lucid dreaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW7ps_VSPkg (1:46 Is that me or is this me? "Am I still dreaming?") Simpsons example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3X1n5Yny3g


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