Portuguese Police Brutality

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Summerlander
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Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby Summerlander » 08 Mar 2017 15:55

Watch this video:
https://youtu.be/jagvYIMJyzU

These Portuguese coppers behaved appallingly but we should keep in mind that they inherited their savagery mentality from the Salazar regime whereby the doctrine of lusotropicalism was implemented.

The constabulary could not be seen to fail in Portugal---in the days when colonialism was rife and with the General Franco war right next door (Spain)---if it was to be believed that the Portuguese were the greatest colonisers in Europe.

I guess the coppers are now learning the hard way but it's not entirely their fault when their generation has been brainwashed by colonialists and imperialists. As one of my fellow countrymen put it after watching the video:

'This is actually in my country, Portugal. We are very civilised and decent people, however, if you want to start shit up, just talk shit about any football club and you'll be likely to get you ass handed back to you. In regards to what happened in the video, we used to have a very authoritarian regime in which police had "special rights" and beatings were frequent, I guess the moral Zeitgeist is shifting accordingly.'

~Filipe Carvalho

Lusotropicalism also led many men to be abusive to their wives. They were led to believe that they would fail as men if they did not succeed in making their wives submissive. How can a Portuguese man fail to control his wife at home when they are supposed to be the greatest colonisers in Europe and the world's greatest 'conquistadors'? This is the kind of mentality my father grew up with and my mother rightfully divorced him after having endured domestic abuse on a daily basis.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

DreamerMan99
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby DreamerMan99 » 14 Mar 2017 00:55

Rather strange how one's morality is influenced by their society's affluent sense of wrong or right.
What I mean is, depending on where you live, some things are seen as right within that society. Example... Saudi Arabia women have very little rights, and it probably isn't seen as immoral to beat your wife as it would in the States. Or, how just 200 years ago my ancestors were owning slaves on their plantations and saw nothing wrong with it, though we know that slavery is horrid today.

It begs the question, how much of our sense of wrong and right is inherently self-based, or societally based?
Who knows what 100 years down the road will be viewed as evil that we probably partake in right now.
Good luck,
Dream on.

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Summerlander
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby Summerlander » 14 Mar 2017 13:31

I think social mores can play a massive role in influencing one's sense of morality. This is why I'd urge everyone to think for themselves and not just blindly adopt cultural precepts. The truth is, socially established values can be mistaken and memes can be pernicious.

Of course one can be influenced in the right direction by studying, say, Immanuel Kant's deontological literature instead of just taking what the Bible or the Qur'an say for granted. But we should always question who might be affected by what we think is gold. Like the golden rule of not doing to others what we wouldn't like them to do unto us. Imagine a criminal in court invoking the golden rule after a judge sentences him to prison!

'Your Honour, if you treasure the golden rule you can't possibly incarcerate me because you wouldn't like to be held captive yourself.'

But it goes deeper than this and touches upon our belief in free will. We don't have a cure for psychopathy and most of us would feed our sense of revenge against a serial killer. 'Let him rot in jail! We hope an inmate beats him up on a daily basis! Execute him slowly and painfully!'

But we forget that the serial killer is a victim of his own faulty biology. There might be a time to come when a cure for psychopathy is found and it won't make any sense to exact revenge upon such anti-social individuals. If we know that by taking the cure their personalities will radically change to the point where they'll feel remorse, disbelief and disgust with their former selves, how can we just condemn them just to feed our own sense of vengeful justice?

In the future, the current penal system might be seen as barbaric. But we now take this as the natural course of the judicial system.

Imagine a future where murderers are seen as merely accidents of nature that need fixing. Imagine dangerous psychopaths being equated with faulty bridges that need construction in order to be made safe.

Just a thought ...
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

DreamerMan99
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby DreamerMan99 » 15 Mar 2017 03:03

Great points. Personally, I think the legal system is completely immoral.
Prisons, rather than punishing with cruel and unusual punishment (state sponsored murder, forced labor and taking away time), should attempt to rehabilitate and fix the person.
But many things may be seen as such, eating meat for example. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the fuck out of a steak, but it is even subjectively cruel to harness another living being simply for the benefit of ourselves. Who knows, it could end up being one of those things that society never changes due to our intrinsic love for meat and our possible inability to come to terms that all the meat we ate was murder.

But how far can this process continue?
As in when will it get to the point that in our attempt to always do the right thing, we no longer do the necessary thing.
Good luck,
Dream on.

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Summerlander
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby Summerlander » 16 Mar 2017 20:29

I think you hit the nail on the head with your points and concerns.

Imagine we arrive at a global consensus on propagating vegetarianism and upholding its ubiquity because it's decided that if human beings wish to regard themselves as truly ethical or moralistic, they must cease to eat meat.

I'm sure many would applaud this achievement for a number of reasons. We'd no longer be hunting and deliberately killing members of other species. Some would say we owed it to ourselves to do it since over aeons we evolved enough mental acuity to understand the evils that can be visited upon conscious creatures. Evolution endowed us with unprecedented intelligence and now we must be responsible. We are the 'adults' of the planet.

Unlike the lion, we no longer have the mindless excuse to kill in order to survive. We have a thinking neocortex.

This ethical policy, however, could have a detrimental effect on us in the long run. It was meat that helped humans to grow their brains in evolution---and we are still evolving. It is still a possibility that eating meat today could be beneficial for us tomorrow. Do we really want to risk ourselves being in a biologically powerless future position where we regret having deprived ourselves of meat? Perhaps we might find that meat naturally gives us adaptive power and immunity against newly-evolved parasites in the evolutionary arena ...

For starters, it is extremely difficult to be a vegetarian in this day and age. They have to make sure they ingest all the proteins that the healthy human body requires. Fish is already deemed to be 'brain food'. We could, of course, take supplements but not everybody is prepared to do it. Furthermore, being a vegie or a vegan can be socially awkward. They can produce the most innocent reasons for their alimentary choices and still sound inhibited or holier-than-thou. And sometimes it seems like meat-eating cooks are expected to be psychics---often having to prepare alternative courses for that one 'special' guest.

I am aware that the debate is more complex than this. Vegies can come up with good arguments which demonstrate the health benefits of their lifestyle. But their vision does not extend beyond the evolutionary expanse of time and possibility.

The best argument I've heard from meat-eaters is that we don't have to stop eating meat in order to ensure that the animals have a good quality of life. Granted that abattoirs can be torture chambers no doubt! But the wild can be a dangerous place where their lives can be cut short. So, since we are supposed to be such caring and intelligent creatures, why don't we build facilities where animals are provided with a sense of freedom without danger, are fed properly, and live long enough before the humanely swift and painless slaughter? Rather than dying in vain in the wild, so to speak, their deaths could have meaning in our bellies! Dying for the great cause of feeding intellectually superior beings! Beautiful ...

Instead of getting so bogged down with making sure that we deontologically do the ostensibly right thing all the time, we should be more pragmatic in attending to our needs. We mustn't lose sight of what's necessary. I've had individuals telling me that Jainism truly is a religion of peace because its adherents kill nothing that lives. But imagine the whole world 'Jainified' ... What would happen to farming? How would we get rid of the living pests that threaten to destroy our crops?

We've digressed but it doesn't matter. Perhaps allowing cops to eat meat will make them less brutal. It's all relative ... :mrgreen:
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

DreamerMan99
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby DreamerMan99 » 20 Mar 2017 03:48

I like the points you've made.

I think about the self-destructiveness that our consciousness has brought us. Greed is destroying our only world, killing the oceans and disrupting the ecosystems. We are extremely self destructive whether it be sex addiction, drug addiction, adrenaline junkies, etc.
Now, people are willing to throw away their ability to consume a high protein meal just because we "feel" that it is wrong to eat other living things. Of course, I am not indifferent to feelings, but I sometimes am reminded that even morality is a social construct. I often find relief in knowing that in the macroscopic view of our universe, there is truly no good or evil. Things simply happen.
We, as humans, love our patterns and meanings. We assign a meaning to everything that occurs in this world. A good - bad scale so to speak. But none of these descriptive terms exist outside of our own experience (not that anything really exists outside our own experience; our minds create our reality).

I may be rambling but I hope I was able to get my point across.
Good luck,
Dream on.

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Summerlander
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby Summerlander » 20 Mar 2017 21:00

I think you got the point across. Outside of our minds, abstract concepts do not exist. If one describes something as good or evil, the universe would be inclined to venture an 'objective' reply (if it could): 'Good or evil to whom?'

It's like asking the universe, 'What do you really look like?' seen as we can never see our surroundings directly---it's always a brain model of reality. And the universe, if it could, would reply: 'What do I look like to whom or what?' A bee is one perspective. A dog another. A bat. A human being and so forth ...

People tend to think of life as sacrosanct. But it can actually be problematic. Perceived problems manifest when objects turn into subjects---which is what happens in this universe. When units of matter are arranged in a particularly complex way and with a high integration of information, they become conscious---aware of themselves and their environments. That's what we are. And then, as aware units of matter, we wage our instinctive drives for survival against the indifference of our surroundings.

The universe may seem to exhibit some order, even more so to creatures that look for patterns, but in reality, it's all chaos. Things happen willy-nilly and follow cause-and-effect at the macrolevel. It's the only truth.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

DreamerMan99
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby DreamerMan99 » 24 Mar 2017 00:33

Summerlander wrote:I think you got the point across. Outside of our minds, abstract concepts do not exist. If one describes something as good or evil, the universe would be inclined to venture an 'objective' reply (if it could): 'Good or evil to whom?'

It's like asking the universe, 'What do you really look like?' seen as we can never see our surroundings directly---it's always a brain model of reality. And the universe, if it could, would reply: 'What do I look like to whom or what?' A bee is one perspective. A dog another. A bat. A human being and so forth ...

People tend to think of life as sacrosanct. But it can actually be problematic. Perceived problems manifest when objects turn into subjects---which is what happens in this universe. When units of matter are arranged in a particularly complex way and with a high integration of information, they become conscious---aware of themselves and their environments. That's what we are. And then, as aware units of matter, we wage our instinctive drives for survival against the indifference of our surroundings.

The universe may seem to exhibit some order, even more so to creatures that look for patterns, but in reality, it's all chaos. Things happen willy-nilly and follow cause-and-effect at the macrolevel. It's the only truth.


agreed.
Good luck,
Dream on.

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Summerlander
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby Summerlander » 24 Mar 2017 02:59

The best we can do is make the most of this experience. The question of how everything came into being is a deep one. Scientists tell us that at the quantum level a state of nothingness is highly unstable which makes the probability for something to arise enormous; hence the Big Bang and Hubble's law of expansion. But we haven't quite figured out why this should be. We want everything explained. Where do we stop?

What is matter? Well ... atoms. What are atoms made of? Protons, neutrons, electrons. What is light? Photons. What lies at the bottom of all this as far as we can see? Quarks. What are quarks made of? CERN to the rescue. More strange subatomic particles that we feel the need to label, conceptualise and ascertain their role in relation to everything else.

But no matter how much we label the essence of reality and learn about its behaviour according to physical laws, we still find that we haven't quite filled a void in our brains. What is this stuff really made of when we know that some particles are so tiny and brief that they almost don't matter. What answer are we looking for that would satisfy us? We even struggle to define consciousness and still scratch our heads about how it emerges in a physical world. If a theory tries to explain it using unconscious elements to begin with, some moan that initial unconsciousness can never beget the conscious byproduct---without realising that the theory can't start with conscious elements otherwise it is not explaining the emergence of consciousness at all.

And others say that consciousness is what we know best because we are it---awareness of this and that; and the real mystery is matter.

You see the crazy world we live in? Perhaps we find it hard to understand this reality-system because we are part of it. Perhaps being a part of it might help us but we are still in the process of sussing out firsthand experience or the first-person ontology.

In the end, all we have is language to describe this strange and alien world that surrounds us. Is language ever a good enough medium to satisfy us with its explanatory power? Do we even have what it takes to understand everything?

Have you seen Eric Heisserer's Arrival?

A linguist is asked to learn an extraterrestrial language. As she starts to learn it, her brain changes and causes her to partially understand how the aliens think and perceive reality. She finds that for the aliens, time is non-linear. The language they evolved 'opened the doors of time' to them. The linguist thinks she's having flashbacks of life events that she had forgotten but, as it turned out, she was having 'flashforwards'. It's science-fiction, I know, but ... it makes one wonder how much language influences the way we perceive reality---and also how little we know about the space-time fabric that we're all encased in.
"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

- Padmasambhava

DreamerMan99
Posts: 345
Joined: 27 Mar 2013 23:53
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Re: Portuguese Police Brutality

Postby DreamerMan99 » 24 Mar 2017 05:13

Right. Part of why I love science is that I have a never ending thirst for knowledge, but in the back of my mind, I know there are things that I will never know or understand because they are very probably beyond the explanation, comprehension, and even reality that we perceive. But that doesn't negate the fact that I want to know as much as possible, or learn as much as possible as to why things work the way they do.

I think that void you speak of exists in everything. But like many more who have come before me, and many more that will come after me, people learn this void is infinite. Nothing fills this void. You see men who go to great lengths to fill this void. Plaster their names on walls, murder millions, crush opponents in war, conquer continents, have children, wife many women, anything to make their legacy last. But I think that the happiness and joy is made not in the destination, but the journey. A perfect example is a collector. A collector is never happy until they have every item, and they will chase even the dumbest of curios down simply to have it.

I think deep down, the scientists involved with particle accelerators do not know what they are really looking for. Some question the legitimacy of why nations spend millions on these to only "discover" a singular atom of an element that lasts a fraction of what we perceive as time simply so it can go onto a classification of other "useless" knowledge. The real question, is why not? Why do anything. Why explore Mars? Why see what's at the bottom of the ocean. Not only because we don't know what we are looking for, but because curiosity is so innate in the human consciousness. Curiosity is the reason for many of our greatest advancements. Anyways, Im starting to incoherently ramble so I digress.

I've never seen Arrival, but I'll have to check it out. Maybe sometime this weekend.
Good luck,
Dream on.


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