This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Tell us about your first lucid dream - and your latest. We want all the juicy details. Also share results of dream challenge experiments.
blackbird
Posts: 14
Joined: 02 Feb 2013 15:05

This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby blackbird » 02 Feb 2013 18:25

Hi,

I just registered to this forum, to write that post: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3205#p14628.

Now, let me paste here the dream journal entry that I don't consider a lucid dream. I consider it a dream that I was lucid dreaming. And I bet a large amount of what regular lucid dreamers dream about is not a lucid dream, but just a regular dream (about being lucid). I can develop on that, but let's focus on the dream report first:


It was around 11:30am the last time I checked, then I fall asleep.

I'm standing on the pavement to the right of a street going slightly down. Rich neighborhood, like le quartier des XV in Strasbourg (my hometown). Trees on my right. A man is standing at the crossroads down 20 meters or so.
I have the thought of someone telling me that walking straight to him is going to be complicated, because it would involve controlling very well how to walk there: walking between parked cars, and crossing the street too. I've read that you can wish yourself in a location and teleport there, so I try it and instantly stand in front of the man.
He looks around 60-65 years old, and was a cop (maybe his clothes?). He has curly white hair, and is a bit fat like some typical retired cop in a movie. I ask him if he is a spirit, and he answers "yes". As I write this dream report, I don't understand why I used the word "spirit" here, because the concept of spirit is not something well defined for me. Anyway, this answer tells me that I can learn from his wisdom, and we decide to sit down somewhere and chat.
We walk a little while towards a park. I interrupt him as we cross a road just before the park's lawn, I stand on the street, and say convincingly "Complete clarity" and "Complete control". I had forgotten to do it until now. I don't notice any improvement in perception, though. As we resume walking, he says that it's a good habit to request that.
We are now entering the park. The weather is beautiful, it's sunny, warm and some autumn leaves have fallen on the ground already. Some young people are sitting in groups on the grass, enjoying this very pleasant afternoon. On the other side of the lawn are university/public buildings, 19th century, in the style of what the Germans built in Strasbourg. I like this style. As we start walking on the lawn per se, he puts on some black slippers/light shoes. We resume walking, without talking for a little while, and I suddenly feel myself phasing out of the dream. While it's happening I quickly wonder if I would have remained "grounded" in the dream had we continued talking.
I wake up.


I'm pretty sure this was a dream about a lucid dream. What do you think?

Errant Soul
Posts: 13
Joined: 31 Jan 2013 03:03

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby Errant Soul » 02 Feb 2013 18:58

Honestly, I am of the mindset that our daily lives, living within the restraint of our body's abilities, is what helps us learn to enjoy having and creating a form in the astral realm of dreams. Lucid dreaming, the techniques we teach ourselves in order to hold form and create awareness or understanding for our dreams, is something our soul draws on in order to grow in its abilities and into its unique self.

If anything, it's easier to think that it is a You that is the same yet Different that is trying to be like you so you can enjoy its joy in living in the astral realm. It wishes to share in the joy that is existence as which it shares in your own daily life.

It is as if the spirit inside of you considers "forms" as a type of magic alien to it, so it tries to do the same.

Only problem is that in this website, it teaches "commands" rather what lets us hold form, which delays the learning process in learning to dream. A Hard Control style of dreaming.

Just my two cents.

Dexdai
Posts: 3
Joined: 02 Feb 2013 19:34

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby Dexdai » 02 Feb 2013 20:12

I can't comment on anyone elses dreams other than to say , if you actually experience a "Lucid Dream" there will be no doubt in your mind what it was. Mine have occured during a regular dream when after observing unusual or impossible changes to what I know to be true I suddenly realize I am dreaming . For me it is a truely magical experience, limited only by my imagination. Any time I've tried to explain it to anyone , they clearly did not understand.

blackbird
Posts: 14
Joined: 02 Feb 2013 15:05

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby blackbird » 02 Feb 2013 20:37

Thanks for the replies. Just to clarify, I have experienced lucid dreams, the most definite experience being WILDs, with an instant transition from being "awake" to "dreaming" (no loss of consciousness at all).

And my experience with LDs is what makes me critical about this one in particular. For the reasons, please read the post I linked.

Errant Soul
Posts: 13
Joined: 31 Jan 2013 03:03

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby Errant Soul » 02 Feb 2013 20:53

I would go further and argue that there is no such thing as lucidity, but the word exists so it must be accepted as a concept with its own unique truth.

So we have to look at what Lucidity means, what Non-Lucidity means, and whether there is a misunderstanding going on.

From what I am reading in this post, I feel that Lucidity is "Conscious Awareness of the Dream World" and Non_Lucidity is "Unconscious Awareness of the Dream World". 1 and 0, a Duality Paradox. But people write about Non_Lucid Dreaming, so most likely we are dealing with "Conscious Awareness" or a "Sub-Conscious Awareness" = an incomplete perception of being, let's call it a "0.5".

Before hitting this Gate of Duality, you have to ask yourself, why I am dreaming and why do I want to dream in the first place? Do I want to learn? Do I want to experience? Do I want to control? Why do I desire Lucidity?

Once you can answer this with your desires for Identity and Ego fulfillment, or you find yourself unable to do so, you'll understand why many of us really are just sitting at "Incomplete Awareness" in either Dream or Reality.

Because in between the Gate of Duality lies the Paradox that holds the pillars together in Truth, sitting at ".05". The Paradox that allows us to have any sort of identity in this universe.

blackbird
Posts: 14
Joined: 02 Feb 2013 15:05

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby blackbird » 02 Feb 2013 22:29

Hi Errant Soul,

I'm having a hard time following you. You use unnecessary cryptic words, it's tiring, please make an effort.

Still, I'm trying to understand what you mean. You write that in this post, you feel that lucidity is "conscious awareness" and then next line that about non-lucid dreaming we are also dealing with "conscious awareness". That's a contradiction to me.

You state that "conscious awareness" or "subconscious awareness" = an incomplete perception of being. Then what is a complete perception of being?

What is the Gate of Duality? If you bring concepts, explain them.

Errant Soul
Posts: 13
Joined: 31 Jan 2013 03:03

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby Errant Soul » 02 Feb 2013 22:58

Lucidity or conscious awareness is that you can remember, think, act, hold, touch, etc. Do everything your ordinarily in life. Like in what your dream conversation was about, the difficulty in walking.

Non-Lucidity implies that you do not have control over any of these actions, you sort of remember the experience in an incomplete manner. So you are acting subconsciously, like a poorly programmed AI.

Gate of Duality is normally known as your standard morality judgement between Good and Evil, Black and White, 1 and 0, Everything and Nothing. Even more simply, what you Love and what your Hate.

The issue in dream generation, or astral projection, is that you cannot replicate a process if you sub-consciously hate it. How you react and behave in your dream will be based of it.

Complete command of your own dream experience in all aspects requires you to have the mindset of a Creator (10), one who loves all aspects of creation in himself. You can only overcome this in your ordinary life. If you hate something in any comparison, you will restrain yourself in the development process of yourself, reflected in your dream world or your soul.

At least that has been my experience up until now. Memory recall has been better even without a dream journal. Have even revisited old dreams from childhood, as if they were being upgraded and then dismantled for concepts.

Dexdai
Posts: 3
Joined: 02 Feb 2013 19:34

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby Dexdai » 02 Feb 2013 23:03

With all due respect , a lot of conversation about what defines a "Lucid Dream" is only necessary for those who have never experienced one.

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Ryan
Posts: 528
Joined: 07 Aug 2011 19:47
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby Ryan » 04 Feb 2013 04:14

blackbird wrote:Hi,

I just registered to this forum, to write that post: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3205#p14628.

Now, let me paste here the dream journal entry that I don't consider a lucid dream. I consider it a dream that I was lucid dreaming. And I bet a large amount of what regular lucid dreamers dream about is not a lucid dream, but just a regular dream (about being lucid). I can develop on that, but let's focus on the dream report first:


It was around 11:30am the last time I checked, then I fall asleep.

I'm standing on the pavement to the right of a street going slightly down. Rich neighborhood, like le quartier des XV in Strasbourg (my hometown). Trees on my right. A man is standing at the crossroads down 20 meters or so.
I have the thought of someone telling me that walking straight to him is going to be complicated, because it would involve controlling very well how to walk there: walking between parked cars, and crossing the street too. I've read that you can wish yourself in a location and teleport there, so I try it and instantly stand in front of the man.
He looks around 60-65 years old, and was a cop (maybe his clothes?). He has curly white hair, and is a bit fat like some typical retired cop in a movie. I ask him if he is a spirit, and he answers "yes". As I write this dream report, I don't understand why I used the word "spirit" here, because the concept of spirit is not something well defined for me. Anyway, this answer tells me that I can learn from his wisdom, and we decide to sit down somewhere and chat.
We walk a little while towards a park. I interrupt him as we cross a road just before the park's lawn, I stand on the street, and say convincingly "Complete clarity" and "Complete control". I had forgotten to do it until now. I don't notice any improvement in perception, though. As we resume walking, he says that it's a good habit to request that.
We are now entering the park. The weather is beautiful, it's sunny, warm and some autumn leaves have fallen on the ground already. Some young people are sitting in groups on the grass, enjoying this very pleasant afternoon. On the other side of the lawn are university/public buildings, 19th century, in the style of what the Germans built in Strasbourg. I like this style. As we start walking on the lawn per se, he puts on some black slippers/light shoes. We resume walking, without talking for a little while, and I suddenly feel myself phasing out of the dream. While it's happening I quickly wonder if I would have remained "grounded" in the dream had we continued talking.
I wake up.

I'm pretty sure this was a dream about a lucid dream. What do you think?

You want my honest opinion?

You don't directly seem to realize that you're dreaming here... *HOWEVER* you do seem to be clued into it due to the wording you're using and the actions you're doing.

In either case, you *ARE* projecting here. But understand... a "dream" is a projection. A "lucid dream" is a projection. An "astral projection" is a projection. They're all projections of varying levels of awareness in the non-physical.

Using the descriptions you state above... I'd say you did realize you were dreaming, so yes, you were projecting. In my terms, I'd call what you had a "non-physical lucid awareness experience"... if you had been fully aware of who and what you are with full physical memory retention, then I'd say it was a "non-physical astral awareness experience".

But yes, you were definitely projecting here. You just didn't say "OH HEY! I'm dreaming!" That's all that was lacking.
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User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 528
Joined: 07 Aug 2011 19:47
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: This is not a LD. And I bet most of yours aren't!

Postby Ryan » 04 Feb 2013 04:17

Errant Soul wrote:From what I am reading in this post, I feel that Lucidity is "Conscious Awareness of the Dream World" and Non_Lucidity is "Unconscious Awareness of the Dream World". 1 and 0, a Duality Paradox. But people write about Non_Lucid Dreaming, so most likely we are dealing with "Conscious Awareness" or a "Sub-Conscious Awareness" = an incomplete perception of being, let's call it a "0.5".

Before hitting this Gate of Duality, you have to ask yourself, why I am dreaming and why do I want to dream in the first place? Do I want to learn? Do I want to experience? Do I want to control? Why do I desire Lucidity?

I think you and I would get along great here. ;)

Yes, you're right on. I think most people are simply extremely confused about what they experience. They read so much about what other people experience and it only further confuses them.

"Lucidity" is definitely a binary thing. You either ARE lucid (aware that you're dreaming), or you're not lucid (not aware that you're dreaming). From my experiences over my life, this would seem to be the case.
For more information, please visit my website
http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/
Or join my forums!
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